However an enterprising pilot can utilise the limited company for other stuff e.g. if he/she is an FI, do some training/revalidations in the GA sphere, do consultancy work, do ferry work
Only that in the Ryanair contracts of which I have heard, all of this is prohibited. It is clearly no real self-employment.
I cannot see how they can prohibit that. What can be an issue is that GA flying hours can count towards your maximum hours… I have however heard from one airline pilot that this is not an issue unless he instructs and then the hours do count.
As I understand it Ryanair use an agency to do all the accounting work for the thousands of Irsh Ltd companies so I guess they could bring some pressure there.
It would be an absolute scream if the agency also submitted the accounts of the few k limited companies to Irish Revenue all at the same time 
Peter wrote:
It would be an absolute scream if the agency also submitted the accounts of the few k limited companies to Irish Revenue all at the same time
I don’t see why? There will be many thousands of companies submitting their tax returns on the same specific days (deadline date for a given year end).
But I’m sure the agency doesn’t submit them all on the same date. They’ll submit them when they are agreed with the directors and signed off (and perhaps only after they’ve been paid). But once all that is done, there is no reason for the to wait until the last possible day.
Are crew based outside Ireland really using Irish companies for this? That would make little sense to me. Why wouldn’t they just use one in their home country?
Yes, I deal with them on a daily basis.
Peter wrote:
decades before we were all supposed to be “fashionably green” and started driving coal-powered electric cars
On a point of pedantry, in the UK you’re not driving a coal-powered electric car (the UK has already had its first coal free days since the Industrial Revolution).
You’re mostly driving a (50%) LNG powered car, with nuclear and wind, and coal about last. Even when the coal stations are running at full tilt, they only now make up about 15% of UK generation. The CCGT (LNG) power stations are vastly more thermodynamically efficient than a car petrol engine, even taking into account grid losses.
As an aviator I feel I should support my fellow pilots, particularly those who work their butts off in the low cost airline business in Europe.
Two simple questions for OP:
1. Why?
2. How?
I’m pretty clear that I don’t feel any urge for supporting them. I can sympathize as with any professional who works hard but IMO there are many other professions where people are doing more for the community while being paid less – the emergency doctors come to my mind first.
Emir wrote:
Two simple questions for OP:
1. Why?
2. How?I’m pretty clear that I don’t feel any urge for supporting them. I can sympathize as with any professional who works hard but IMO there are many other professions where people are doing more for the community while being paid less – the emergency doctors come to my mind first.
Lots of wisdom and common sense in that. Also, as Silvair pointed out, piloting an airliner is more like a machine operating job. Follow rules and procedures, and you can live a happy and relaxed life until retirement. Traditionally, airline captains came from the air forces. There they had experienced hard days, low pay, highly dangerous life in general for several years to protect “king and country” – if you had what it took to be one of the lucky few to be selected. But with all that also comes high social respect and status, interesting job, and a sort of life experience you just can’t get anywhere else. Becoming a captain in an airline was a sort of retreat from that hard and uncertain life, and the airlines were willing to pay a lot for that (life) experience. It’s a secure bet, a win/win situation for both the airline and the pilot. Coming from a ATPL “sausage factory” you aren’t really worth much in a commercial sense until you’ve had 2-3 years to settle down in the chair, obviously, or all airlines would hire them ASAP. Ryanair finds a way to use them. That’s good. They don’t get payed very much, don’t get treated like “captains”, so what? I don’t know of any profession where you get top pay without showing you actually can handle the job and has proven that you “fit in”.
“….piloting an airliner is more like a machine operating job. Follow rules and procedures, and you can live a happy and relaxed life until retirement.”
This might, to some extent, be true for following the manufacturer and company specified procedures to operate the airplane, but even there things aren’t always as clear cut as you make them out to be.
I think you are over simplifying the daily business of an airline pilot a lot. Follow rules and procedures = be happy and relaxed in aviation? How is this principle working out for you when flying a recreational airplane on a self defined schedule without economic pressure?
I am not saying one has to be a genius to be an airline pilot, but as a Captain one has tremendous responsibility in increasingly challenging surroundings. The question of this thread isn’t one simply about remuneration, more is it about systematic erosion of basic rights for employees using tax and social security loopholes leading to “atypical employment” which generates an economic advantage against competitors that do not exploit such possibilities.
E.g.: CB forecast at destination. Company flight plan specifies min. block fuel. Captain takes 30 minutes extra fuel. Two hours later, during landing, the CB has moved 30 miles away from the field and is no factor anymore. Flight lands with 30 minutes extra in the tanks.
At some airlines, this is a non event.
At other airlines, fuel uplift is monitored, some even have point systems allocating “minus points” to crew for taking extra fuel or arriving late etc… everything is monitored!
On paper it is very simple. You the Captain, the PIC, are the sole one responsible to ensure that you will not land below minimum fuel. You are also the one who has the final say on fuel uplift. Unless you are fired because you are taking more extra fuel than average or have called in sick or unfit to fly, for instance. EASA law states you cannot go fly if you are sick. Follow the law and see what happens to your “employment”.
Many pilots at loco airlines have little or no protection – no union, no seniority, most are self employed anyway and will just not be called to work anymore… thy do however have a family to feed.
The airline is in a comfortable situation. Subtly pressure crew to take less and less fuel and if something goes wrong it is the PIC alone who will face the consequences. And if a self employed pilot is sick, great, his problem, not the company’s.
On the other hand, a Captain for a major EU airline can exercise his responsibility without pressure because he is directly employed and usually has some form of seniority system protecting him against “replacement”.
Ultimately, the only ones who can and need to change this are the pilots. Why should someone else take care of them. Seems like they are trying at Ryanair but so far it’s been made very difficult for them.
I do think that they should be supported!
Why: It’s a nice thing to do. Treat others as you would like to be treated. They aren’t demanding anything unreasonable. They jusy want to be employed by the airline they fly for and have basic social security.
How: As fellow aviators, just being aware what’s going on can make a difference. Make your friends and family aware. Everybody is comparing flight prices and likes a bargain, nothing against that, I personally try to avoid leaving my cash at airlines that pressure their crews and make them fly sick because of zero hour contracts.
