Airborne_Again wrote:
Sure, but if the agreement is that the part should be fit for use in aircraft – as is certainly the case with Van’s – them the manufacturer does have an obligation that the parts are indeed fit for purpose.
As mentioned it is debatable. Van’s aren’t building the aircraft, the builder is. This is the very essence of non certified aircraft. Fit for purpose, yes. Van’s will replace your parts if they are not fit for purpose. The thing is, the aircraft has to, to be able to fly, be airworthy. Only the builder, together with whatever process and people the authorities decides, can make the plane airworthy.
@LeSving not necessarily. Many, many builders have tried to reject these parts and until this about turn recently Vans steadfastly refused and insisted the parts were fit for purpose.
I tried to reject about a dozen parts from my empennage kit last spring. They were beaten up, scratched, dinged, etc. Vans refused.
This whole thing hasn’t just come out of the blue. There is a large but unspoken undercurrent of “we told you so” from the builder community.
Graham wrote:
The demonstrably HAVE done a 180 in that they are no longer producing laser cut parts and aren’t shipping them anymore.
Well, this doesn’t mean the laser cut parts are not good enough (in general). It merely states that making laser cut parts makes the customers way too much upset to be a viable manufacturing process.
Laser cutting 2024 sounds like a really bad idea on the face of it, but the it’s very much in the details here I would think.
LeSving wrote:
Laser cutting 2024 sounds like a really bad idea on the face of it, but the it’s very much in the details here I would think.
I ordered a laser cut panel, and when I got it I was shocked at how horrible it looked. I got it re-cut with water jet. And this was I believe 0.0625" 2024 – quite thick. I’m honestly struggling to see how so many parts got cut this horribly and shipped to a customer. Every company makes mistakes, and this one is a doozy.
These are laser cut holes. They aren’t even close to round, over 10 thou difference in inside measurement taken at two points 90 degrees apart. Plus the notches. This is in my RV-7 flap spar, a part that Vans has already advised must be replaced with a non-laser cut example.
I agree that Vans shouldn’t have done the laser cutting, but on the other hand I can understand why they did what they did.
Over the years, my experience with Vans was always very good. They never refused any of my warranty claims, and it’s been a few including a hartzell prop damaged by a shipper. I got a new one. It over 10 grand.
Graham wrote:
I tried to reject about a dozen parts from my empennage kit last spring. They were beaten up, scratched, dinged, etc. Vans refused.
Would you be comfortable sharing with us how much are those parts?
From engineering stand point, there are safety concerns and visual concerns. I can very well understand that you don’t want to build with scratched and beaten parts. It’s certainly a visual concern, but not necessarily a safety concern.
@RV14 they were not expensive parts. Empennage ribs mainly, perhaps a spar or two. All well under a hundred dollars, the ribs probably less than 30. These weren’t laser cutting issues, they were just ‘beaten up’ and obviously not fresh from production – had obviously kicked around the place for a while and been used in various trial assemblies or whatever.
It gets worse. I have just been examining some of my wing kit parts more closely, and I thought that the two aileron gap fairings (identical parts apart from chirality) felt different in my hands.
According to the parts sheet, both are supposed to be 0.020" T3. As it happens, I have one laser cut and one CNC punched.
Graham wrote:
I have just been examining some of my wing kit parts more closely, and I thought that the two aileron gap fairings (identical parts apart from chirality) felt different in my hands.
As long as the dimensions are correct (as long as it fits), I wouldn’t worry too much about that one. Updrill the holes with correct size bit and deburr correctly and you will be fine IMO. But obviously that laser cut facility has really screwed things up.
Obviously I know that having one fairing 5 thou thicker than the other isn’t going to make any difference to anything, but it’s indicative of the wider quality issues. If I can’t trust that a fairing will be as it should be, what of more vital parts?
Point is, either QC has been close to zero or there has been enormous organisational pressure not to reject parts during a period of high demand and challenging production ramp-up.
