I agree SafeTaxi is excellent. You can zoom to a much greater degree than with the Jepp plates. Having had to taxi at Schipols wide open aprons, knowing which yellow line is the right one is pretty important.
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I wonder what is the best way to handle these situations?
And to Peter’s question. The right way to deal with unclear taxi instructions is to stop and clarify. Greece, the US or anywhere. I think taxiing is the most stressful side of flying into large airports.
I got SafeTaxi and Flite Charts on my Garmin 695. I am really happy with the display. Closest thing you can get to a large MFD I suppose.
One could generate such charts for Europe by georeferencing the AIP plates. Only one needed per airport.
It exists/existed for the UK. Memory Map used to give them away on their website. I have the whole lot from c. 2008. You need either an old pre-DRM MM (and ignore the update nags on IOS) or an extra QCT license. I think they exist for Ozi too.
It isn’t a complete solution as I say above especially if it is north-up as the MM ones were. Do the Jepps rotate, either in Safetaxi or in the JeppFd-VFR IOS product?
No, they do not rotate, wouldn’t make much sense because they are not vectorized and the text could not be read.
@Peter wrote:
Not sure which airport this is
Peter this is Tatoi LGTT ! with the tents of AthensFlyingWeek show being set up as you fly above.
My comments on your Athens (city) and LGAV experience:
There is no C9 taxi(link) in LGAV.
I think they told you D9 and must have had a C (Charlie) in the phrase that confused you. Maybe they mentioned Charlie taxiway since this is the one passing abeam the GA apron. C09 you show is a PARKING spot in the north apron in front of Olympic Air maintenance hangar.
When ATC talks this way you simply tell them “Say again, speak slowly, I did not understand” and you repeat it as many times as needed. Don’t rush to try to copy their instructions. Ask them to say again as many times as needed until they understand what THEY need to do.
Also regarding wake turbulence separation, if you are not happy with the clearance, BEFORE entering the runway you just say “unable, need 2 minutes for wake turbulence separation”. In this they will either ask you to line up and wait (if no traffic on final) or acknowledge and let you go when YOU request.
So again this is an issue of PILOT being in control and not rushing to accommodate ATC’s ideas.
In general whenever I have visited LGAV I have never had such experiences and has nothing to do with being Greek or familiar with the airport. All my visits have been very comfortable with communications and procedures. Its just a more complex set up of taxiways that you have to be careful to follow instructions meticulously due to airliners taxying by fast.
Peter wrote:
Athens has been really great (despite an “interesting AirB&B experience” caused by going way too downmarket) and we got some great pics. I will post some when I get sorted out…
The fact that you pay ~2.000 Euro in AVGAS to get back and forth UK to Greece but still elect yo choose the cheapest B&B hostel in the center of Athens is beyond me !
ANY decent hotel in Athens (and all of Europe) costs 70~80 Euro per night and there are not stuff like the ones you mentioned in such hotels.
The one you report on (and the picture posted from the area) is not Athens. Its a red light district type of hostel ! for “short stay”.
rotate.
SafeTaxi maps act heading up. I didn’t chech if it can be switched to North up but I guess it can be, following setup attribute for all charts.
Flyer59 wrote:
you have the taxi chart BIG and up
I must say this is a great tool, maybe even more useful than the approach chart on the MFD (which I consider as a confirmation of your position).
Flyer59 wrote:
but COPA members get a 25 percent discount (15 months instead of 12)
Something I didn’t know !
How do you claim for this advantage ?
Hi
if you are a member of COPA you just give Jeppesen your COPA ID or eMail under which you have registered. I sent them a screenshot of my COPA profile page.
You will the normal price but get 15 months instead of 12!
Flyer59 wrote:
No, they do not rotate, wouldn’t make much sense because they are not vectorized and the text could not be read.
Safetaxi rotates, and the text rotates and scales with the zoom level. An excellent tool.
petakas wrote:
When ATC talks this way you simply tell them “Say again, speak slowly, I did not understand” and you repeat it as many times as needed. Don’t rush to try to copy their instructions. Ask them to say again as many times as needed until they understand what THEY need to do.
Exactly. I usually do “request progressive taxi, unfamiliar” and when not clear I just stop and refuse to move until it’s clear. Also good to stop and just ask “confirm turn right here”? They don’t have an MG on the tower and shoot you if you don’t taxi fast. I have noticed several times in Greece that the taxi signs were not visible from a GA cockpit because they don’t mow the lawns properly and I have to admit that I did a runway incursion in Greece once but they did not get excited about it: “D-EXXX you just entered the runway but you were lucky, there is no aircraft so now turn left..”.
Keep in mind that airports like LGAV are used 99.9% by CAT who fly the very same routes all the time throughout their career and they know exactly what to do and only listen to ATC with half an ear. On the other hand, I have witnessed more than once CAT crews get totally confused by an ATC instruction that was not what it usually is in that situation. You hear helpless “waypoint XYZ is not on our flight plan” quite often or strong protest against visual approaches in CAVOK. So each type of traffic has its weaknesses, for us it’s unfamiliarity, for CAT it’s over-familiarity…
Also regarding wake turbulence separation, if you are not happy with the clearance, BEFORE entering the runway you just say “unable, need 2 minutes for wake turbulence separation”. In this they will either ask you to line up and wait (if no traffic on final) or acknowledge and let you go when YOU request.
If I’m cleared to lineup, I line up and then I sit there and wait for 2 minutes. Wake separation is taught in ATC 101 in the first week so they must know that I will be sitting on the runway. It’s not optional, it’s mandatory depending on the categories of aircraft involved which are specified in the flight plans. If this means approaching traffic has to go around, it’s entirely ATC’s mistake. They are highly paid professionals, not my job to do the thinking for them.
