gallois wrote:
I am very surprised that the significance of SUP AIPs were not stressed in your training
They are very important. I’ve just never read or searched through them in their entirety, instead relied on NOTAMs to see them.
Also, Sofia has a chart ? I’ve yet to see that.
You have to look at SUP AIPs because you get the details there. For example what @roznet posted just tells you that there might be a zone active. You might think ok, as long as there’s no activation NOTAM you’re good. But if you go read the SUP AIP, you find the normal activation times and then you know you when to expect them to be active.
His example has this:
DATES AND TIMES OF ACTIVITY
ZRT ALPHA SAINT DIE active :
- 14 : 1200-1400 and 1900-2359
- 15 : 0000-0200 and 1800-2359
- 16 : 0000-0200 and 0600-0900.
ZRT BRAVO SAINT DIE activation is possible by NOTAM at D-2
- 14 : 1200-1400 and 1900-2359
- 15 : 0000-0200 and 1800-2359
- 16 : 0000-0200 and 0600-0900
USER INFO
So you see.. important to read.
I am very surprised that the significance of SUP AIPs were not stressed in your training. Both the FFA, FFPLUM and DGAC all push very strongly on this through the clubs DTOs and ATOs.
I spent too much time looking at the stopwatch to do that 
But seriously anybody who sets up aeronautical information this way needs their head examined. Obviously this is fine for sunny Sunday aeroclub pilots who a) rarely go anywhere and b) speak French but it is a huge dis-service to everybody else who wants to visit France and finds their satnav apps are not showing key information. This is the 21st century! Minitel is dead! The only escape from this bizzarre situation is the IR, and even then only if you fly to full time towered runways in CAS so you are “protected” from the “missing information”.
Unbelievable!
hazek wrote:
You have to look at SUP AIPs because you get the details there. For example what @roznet posted just tells you that there might be a zone active. You might think ok, as long as there’s no activation NOTAM you’re good. But if you go read the SUP AIP, you find the normal activation times and then you know you when to expect them to be active.
I did not mean I ONLY read the NOTAM either ^^
I get the SUP AIP number by NOTAM, then Google it and get a direct link to the PDF to know what it’s about. Many of them are quite complex and you have to read a lot in order to understand if you’re impacted or not. Sometimes a small text says you can fly with no restrictions, other times the zone is simply prohibited, and sometimes it’s just specific radio procedures, so there’s really no going around reading them.
One example last week was the 8th of May celebration which prohibited flying around Paris. Turned out only the Paris CTR was affected and I was barely out of reach.
and get a direct link to the PDF
Quite often googled regulatory docs are obsolete versions. Don’t ever try this with EASA docs…
@Peter how would you go about delivering such information ? There is so much going on here that mandates restrictions (especially military ops, air demonstrations, etc.) that I think this system works fine. Especially since it’s well integrated into apps, and (again) provided you don’t have to read ALL of them to know what’s going on.
Not translating something like SUP AIP 096/24 (very complex Olympics restrictions) is a problem for sure.
Peter wrote:
Quite often googled regulatory docs are obsolete versions. Don’t ever try this with EASA docs…
I also always check that the PDF lies on the SIA website.
Have to agree with Peter there, don’t look for that anywhere else but here: https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/documents/supaip/aip/id/6
how would you go about delivering such information
The existing system i.e. a notam database. One then uses simple algorithms to plot the enclosing circles against the proposed route. Or plot the polygons onto the chart, which usually don’t contain errors.
But publishing stuff which cannot be machine-parsed reliably is no good.
Not translating something like SUP AIP 096/24 (very complex Olympics restrictions) is a problem for sure.
You probably can’t do that one, but the overall thing should still be possible to notam, so pilots get notified and – probably – not go there at all
For example the Olympics NOTAM reads :
SPECIAL AVIATION SECURITY SYSTEM (‘DPSA’) FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE
2024 PARIS OLYMPIC AND PARALYMPIC GAMES – AIP SUP 096/24.
SUBJECT : CREATION OF A TEMPORARY PROHIBITED AREA (‘ZIT COUBERTIN’)
AND OF 3 TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREAS (‘ZRT JOP’, ‘ZRT OWL HIGH’ AND
‘ZRT OWL LOW’).
THIS AIP SUP IS AVBL AT WWW.SIA.AVIATION-CIVILE.GOUV.FR
The procedures for this AIP SUP are so complex that I don’t think you can go in much more detail in the NOTAM.
As for vector format, whether it’s officially published in this form is irrelevant, since third parties make it available directly onto maps anyway. Again it’s comparable to IAP plates, where official publications are impossible to go through and third parties edit and compile them to make them readable. They probably have an internal vector format anyway, since it makes things easier to print, and can potentially easily provide the vectors to e.g. SD / SDVFR / FF. All transparent for users. (Now that I think about it, this does not include onboard avionics, I don’t know how that would work there)
In the (paper based, arguably tedious) French PPL training, it’s sometimes advised to draw the area on your paper chart (especially for temporary P zones you fly close to), which consists of copying the PDF chart. So it’s really only apps that make things easier with such temporary airspace modifications.
it’s sometimes advised to draw the area on your paper chart
That’s the issue, people still living in the fax age, trying to communicate overly complex rules. The only thing a user can realistically do is rely on paid services like Skydemon and pray…
