Sebastian_G wrote:
Probably “GA” is not a great description. Reading the response above they like GA but think of it as jet traffic.
@Sebastian_G, I strongly believe that most players on the market distinguish now between genuine General Aviation and Business Aviation (be that AoCs or just corprorate flyers).
arj1 wrote:
I strongly believe that most players on the market distinguish now between genuine General Aviation and Business Aviation (be that AoCs or just corprorate flyers).
I think many mix them up on purpose. You complain about aspects concerning owner flown GA and you get a biz jet answer. How many times did I get emails this year along the lines “we can not grant you parking PPR but not problem please just plan a quick turn around”. How should I do that as an ower flown plane. Make the plane fly away on its own and come back a few days later? So this is an outright cancelation disguised in business aviation wording.
Mixing small GA and business aviation is just a way of locking out small GA without ever admitting to do so. Our new Berlin airport was build and politics said sure it will accomodate all the traffic which came from the airports it did replace. Then small GA gets effectively locked out and they say where is the problem, “GA” is still in, isn’t it? Same did actually happen in Munich a few years before…
Plus, LOWS will get plenty of light GA because a lot of people will pay the €100.
If you are say going skiing in Austria, you are paying say 500-1k for avgas, 500 for a week’s ski pass, 500 for gear rental, 1k-2k for a week’s accommodation, 1k for eating out…
And they and lots of others probably know this.
I suspect local Austrian light GA didn’t go there much anyway because it was never that cheap. In Europe, most light GA avoids any place charging more than about €30.
This is the problem for light GA. Long before you get to bizjets, “some” people pay these fees. And then you get bizjets who pay anything; 1k is fine.
I suspect local Austrian light GA didn’t go there much anyway because it was never that cheap.
I’d guess 90% of PPLs in Austria have flown to LOWS.
I think it’s my fault. I remember when leaving Salzburg a few years ago, I told the lady at the desk what a nice airport it is with fair fees and pleasant way of doing business, without hassle. Too bad, it is such a nice destination.
I’d guess 90% of PPLs in Austria have flown to LOWS
Regularly? When I was there, there were only a few planes parked. So the “management” may well think it is mostly bigger stuff. So even for Austrian AOPA it isn’t a priority…
I think it’s my fault. I remember when leaving Salzburg a few years ago, I told the lady at the desk what a nice airport it is with fair fees and pleasant way of doing business, without hassle. Too bad, it is such a nice destination.
Me too – I said the same.
Peter wrote:
I suspect local Austrian light GA didn’t go there much anyway because it was never that cheap.
Salzburg was very active with small GA. So are Klagenfurt, Graz and Linz as well as Innsbruck. Now that Salzburg has outpriced most people, there is a high risk that the others will follow. The only airport which was avoided in Austria due to high costs was Schwechat (LOWW), even though I recall that years ago I flew into there several times too. Prices were normal for an airport with IFR and night as well as AoE facilities.
Salzburg is very active during the skiing season but otherwise it’s not very busy. There is no reason for capacity or these things to evict GA, it is pure spite and the calculation every Ryanair airport does that one 737 pais for the whole day of work while GA’s measly landing fees are not worth having.
In Europe, most light GA avoids any place charging more than about €30.
Coffee flyiers and burger runners may do that, everyone else has long accepted that an airport which has proper facilities is in the 50€ region. And that is ok, but beyond that many people stop doing things. If the landing fees exceed the price of a flight hour, that is when most people shy away.
Salzburg will now be somewhere at €150-200 for small GA which is way too much. If they indeed do an exception up to 1000 kg, they might as well have put it to 2000 or 4-6 seats. What is the logistical difference of a C172 to a PA28-140? Both need crew transport and both have 4 potential places.
Snoopy wrote:
I’d guess 90% of PPLs in Austria have flown to LOWS.
Was actually my landing for the triangle flight :)
Extremely sad news. Never been to LOWS yet, but had planned it a few times, but each time was cancelled due weather or aircraft not being available. On the other hand: What about parking at Hangar 7? That’s the Apron of Red Bull, so I don’t think the airport might charge these extra fees overthere.
Outpricing small GA becomes indeed more and more of an issue. I don’t hope Innsbruck, Graz and Klagenfurt will follow these practices soon. Especially because there aren’t any alternatives nearby. That’s a different thing to Zurich for example. For sure it’s sad that LSZH is also outpricing GA, but you can still go to LSZF and travel to the city by public transportation or taxi. It’s a lot slower and VFR-only, no doubt, but still doable. And if all area is covered in IMC, LSZM might be an alternative, which is still only 1 hour by public transport.
LOWS has no alternative. The most nearby airfield is EDNK or LOLU. Forget it! Salzburg is therefore, unreachable for small GA. At least when you won’t accept outragous fees.
