With the exception of AOPA Greece, AOPAs in Europe have no real or effective lobby. It‘s a perfect reflection of the European environment. The proposal to establish a common air-air frequency, across Europe first and then targetting ICAO is being promoted as a big success. Wow! But where was or is AOPA/IAOPA with the border crossing petition, which would have far more impact and benefit on real GA travel? Or with the scandalous Italian airfield restriction regulation? Or with handling fee prices like this across the EU…. this is the second now in short order after Croatia. AOPAs lobby activity across the EU needs to be much more aggressive and coordinated/combined if they are to have any real benefit to GA. Given the EU political landscape, that will likely never happen. But it‘s not impossible. When the Elba mgmt raised fees out of all proportion, AOPA IT called for a boycott of the airfield and it was followed. Traffic went to essentially zero. The manager was fired shortly thereafter and things got back to normal….. not cheap, but bearable.
chflyer wrote:
Or with handling fee prices like this across the EU…. this is the second now in short order after Croatia.
You should mention Zurich, which from January 1st 24 will have parking fees outpricing all stationed traffic safe for those who are willing to pay the outrageous fees in the few hangars there, along with a hearthy rise of landing fees as well. Zurich now also joins the ranks of non-accessible cities for GA. I have worked at this airport since 1986 and put all of my effort into it… today I feel betrayed and unwanted and consequently will avoid using it, even though it sits literally 1 km from my doorstep.
Face it: GA as we know it, as in travel tool, as in IFR, as in usefulness in Europe will cease to exist. It’s a death by 1000 cuts, but it is a death nevertheless. For AOPA to do something about it, even if there was a proper lobby, which there is not, is too late and too little. Even if I do reckognize the tremendous work of AOPAs in Greece and elsewhere, what they achieve is not that much. Greece is still largely unaccessible for small GA (Fraport). The only real achievements were in some countries including Greece where they managed to get some fees reduced for members.
Well, slowly but surely I think it’s time to say good bye.
Europe is not a country. It is a group of geographically adjacent regions, each with its own culture and language. I know this is not a fashionable statement (because so many, particularly the young, believe in “unification”) but it is the reality and always has been.
So there is no “European AOPA”. There is a lunching club called IAOPA which writes out a newsletter 
Some AOPA chiefs are in bed with the local CAA (UK is one example, on the handling of the disastrous UK infringement policy) and the whole thing is undermined by a lack of funding, so it is a vicious circle. Most people won’t join because their AOPA does a crap job. The pilots of Country A do not care at all (99% of the time) for what happens to GA in Country B – another side effect of so few pilots in Europe having an IR, the lack of which de-promotes flying across borders. EuroGA does a good job promoting cross European issues but still most people here will not post negative stuff about their own country, so a lot of stuff remains quiet, and local.
But there are positives. Sure, as Justine often commented on the trips we used to do together until about 10 years ago, we have had the good times, like Corfu for €30, Split for €15, and now it is harder. But one can still do it. The Greek situation is still addressable with the right route planning (Ionina instead of Corfu) to the extent of the airport cost being a small % of the avgas and other cost. And same across rest of Europe. We just keep paying more and more at a lot of “airline, but low use” airports whose short-sighted managers think they will get more big jet business by organising for big jets, alone.
There is no reason to give up. One just has to organise things differently. The biggest issues are elsewhere e.g. with so many experienced pilots getting out of flying, so the social side is harder today.
Actual flying is same as when I started 24 years ago, VFR and IFR.
Peter wrote:
I know this is not a fashionable statement (because so many, particularly the young, believe in “unification”) but it is the reality and always has been.
It is truer than ever. And I suppose there is a good chance that in the near future that unification dream will go up in smoke. Literally.
Peter wrote:
So there is no “European AOPA”.
That on the other hand is the “fault” of the national AOPAs who, instead of forming a European Association, which they could do, prefer to cook their own soups while staying under the mantle of IAOPA. IAOPA on the other hand has preciously little interest in Europe as a whole. It does not change the fact that European GA has no lobby but it contributes to it.
Peter wrote:
But one can still do it.
I disagree. 200 Euro fees take all the economical feasibility out of airports. Outpricing kills the airports altogether for GA, which is their goal. So many destinations are no longer reachable. Going to alternates is fine if flying is the purpose only, but if you wish to fly to specific destinations and those close to you, then the reason of being is gone. You can fly to Greece because YOUR destination happens to be one which is not FRAPORT infested, yet if someone’s destination is Korfu or Dubrovnik or Samos or any other high price airports, then they can’t do it anymore.
Peter wrote:
The biggest issues are elsewhere e.g. with so many experienced pilots getting out of flying, so the social side is harder today.
The reason why so many experienced folks ARE giving up is exactly because they don’t joyride but because they have a purpose in flying someplace. And if that purpose is killed off by outpricing, then they give up. And no, in this case it was not the pilots who started this, it is a clear consequence of airports outpricing GA. This together with PPR together with red tape and other b.s. is the main reason why experienced people give up in disgust.
Peter wrote:
Actual flying is same as when I started 24 years ago, VFR and IFR.
Really? Either your memory is fading or mine is non existent. When I started, things were VERY different and yes, they were much better. Actually, they were a different world.
Flying (in the air) is the same. LPV is the only new thing. Some navaids are gone but everybody has been using 100% GPS anyway. I have 3000hrs now.
Peter wrote:
so few pilots in Europe having an IR, the lack of which de-promotes flying across borders
That sure is an interesting theory… care to explain why and how?
The question is rather why should we get an IR if all the IFR airports are out priced
That sure is an interesting theory… care to explain why and how?
It doesn’t apply to you, Dan, because you know how to work the system But look around you at the other flyers. Most never leave their own country.
The question is rather why should we get an IR if all the IFR airports are out priced
An IR dramatically simplifies flying long distances, even if you depart or land “VFR” at the end. I did plenty of VFR (longest was UK to Santorini, or UK to LEAX near Malaga) but all these involved a fair bit of illegal VFR. It was safe because I was instrument capable… well except the Swiss ICAO charts having elevations in metres!
But this is off topic for LOWS. And we have had many threads on airport pricing, plus the legal action by that Polish guy.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
The question is rather why should we get an IR if all the IFR airports are out priced
That is the problem. To make use of an aircraft as a real means of transportation which can be planned etc. you usually need an airport with IFR approach, decent opening times, fuel etc. and rental cars on site. Many of those airports become more and more useless for a combination of crazy charges and parking PPR.
Everybody goes on and on about eVTOL, electric flight you name it all not realizing the infrastructure to really use all such things, if they ever work, is not there or actually going down the drain.
look around you at the other flyers
Thinking about it I think the clue has nothing to do with me @Peter, but rather the diminutive size of the country I live in. People around here continuously hit the borders, so getting fresh air abroad is pretty common I find.
Big places, France, Germany, etc, can be self-sufficient for a pilot’s comfort zone.
Back to the topic:
you usually need an airport with IFR approach, decent opening times, fuel etc. and rental cars on site
A provocative thought… you guys insisting on flying IFR, needing all this stuff (procedures, equipment, ATC, etc), delaying CAT by slowing down the system to fit one aircraft holding 1 pilot and maybe 2 1/2 pax, then displaying your expensive machine to the airport managers and various other envious onlookers probably help feed the “let’s increase taxes and introduce some handling here” way of thinking.
Now these medium sized fields which were barely affordable for most of the VFR crowd just become out of reach.
