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Totally embarrassed by a commercial pilot...

Flyer 59, I have to say that you are living proof that Abe Lincon was correct.

It is simply not realistic to compare the first generation of EFIS Boeings with the Airbus A320/330/340 aircraft.

There are two reasons for this, the first is cultural, The EFIS Boeings predated the A320 and so the industry make some mistakes in or rather the lack of training and secondly these aircraft are now falling into the hands of some very third rate operators.

When you look at like with like, B737NG and A320 then the Boeing is slightly better than the Airbus in but as the Airbus has been in service a few years longer I would put the slightly worse record down to some of the older aircraft moving to third rate airlines.

When you take a look at the two biggest LOCO’s in Europe Easy jet flys the A320 family and Ryanair the B737NG ( putting aside RYR’s appalling customer service !) they in terms of air safety both have first class records, both have very good flight crew training and aircraft maintenance. However the operations differ in the fact that RYR uses far more small airports that have the ILS on one runway or no ILS and only a NP approach. It follows that the biggest European B737 fleet is flown in a higher risk environment than the biggest A320 fleet.

The devil with statistics is that until you pull apart exactly what is going on with the way an aircraft is operated you can’t get a true picture of what the real risks are.

Their does seem to be a hint of some emotional investment in Airbus about your posts ( my investment in the aircraft is I have held a B1 maintenance licence on both B737 & A320 and have both types current on my pilots licence) and I know that on non precision approach on a dark night with the rain being driven by the wind at 30kts across the short runway I would far rather be sitting at the front of a B737NG than an Airbus.

A_and_C wrote:

I very much doubt that a Boeing would have been stalled in from FL330 by a pilot holding the controls full nose up simply because the other pilot would have known very quickly the selected control position.

It’s hard to say what would have happened as there were multiple factors at play. If they physically wrestled each other, they might have snapped out of it. But I wouldn’t bet on it. From reading the transcript I got the impression they both were confused about what’s going on, failed to work as a team and I don’t remember an indication that at least one of them was working the problem like one would expect. Bonin probably truly believed they were overspeeding and the pull-up might have been instinctive.

@Flyer59 There should be dual input indication (visual and aural), you shouldn’t have to press anything. But I don’t know if it is/ was standard equipment.

Cobalt wrote:

What many airline pilots don’t realise is that even the humble GNS430 has many of the functions of an FMS, albeit a single-sensor one.

Is that what he reacted to? It seems the rest of the audience agreed with him. It must have been something.

The elephant is the circulation

@LeSving Who knows who was in the audience. @lenthamen wrote that he was one of the few GA pilots there. So the rest were CAT pilots? I somehow wouldn’t think so. Is G1000 as good as a multi-million euro suite? Probably not. But we are talking about a certified kit deemed good enough for small jets used in accordance with regulations. If it was so dangerous, the overprotective authorities probably wouldn’t have allowed it.

Last Edited by Martin at 14 Nov 11:45

Ill give Martin a thumbs up on our over protective Agencies.

Now Im not sure but are US Carriers allowed to make NP approaches? In the US? World Wide?

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