I also moonlight at one of two commercial schools nearby and they have absolutely no intention of offering the 10 hours at an ATO part of the CBIR.
They pay the CAA over 20,000 pounds a year for all of their approvals and simply need the revenue of the traditional 55 hour IR.
And people call me cynical… 
But yes AFAIK the ATPL ATOs still do the old 55hr JAA ME IR. No CB IR option.
OTOH most old hands in the business will say that a totally ab initio candidate will need most of those hours to be ready for the test. Plus you have to do the 14 ATPL exams anyway, so the saving is only the “competence based flight time saving” which as I have just said is probably minimal.
OTOH where the hell is a private pilot going to go to do an IR? He/she might have (will have if they have any sense) loads of unlogged, or even logged with a freelance FI, instrument time.
I know of one person who did it via an “unapproved simm” and also know of a FAA CPL/IR chap converting to an EASA IR in the same way.
They already have significant IFR hours logged to gain maximal CBIR credit. One via the FAA IR the other via an IMC rating.
They are then using an “unapproved simm” with an IRI, IRR, IRE screaming at them. This was then supplemented with some aircraft time. The IMC chap got through the ATO aspects of the CBIR in low but not minimal hours. We will have to wait and see how the FAA chap gets on.
Steve6443 wrote:
Here in Germany we have the BZF 2 for Radio in German, BZF 1 for radio in english and AZF for radio under IFR – just wondering what would be the situation here, whether a pilot taking the BIR needs an AZF or could do it using a BZF 1 – after all, he would have the appropriate privileges, once he has the ELP……
I’m not that familiar with the law but IIRC you need AZF (the general licence) for IFR (even on domestic flights). If that is indeed so, then without some exception I think you’d need AZF. In the Czech Republic, the distinction between general and restricted is international and domestic (I think there is an exception for the Slovak Republic) IIRC. That is, you need the general licence even for VFR if you want to cross borders (and you of course need English to get it). These licences are used to satisfy telecommunication laws, not aviation laws AFAIK. Hence we have double examinations from English. Even if I happened to have German and Czech LPs, it wouldn’t do me any good (AIUI).
Bathman wrote:
I doubt the CAA will make it as simple as that.
I imagine they will work on the administrative burden for BIR, they just won’t allow RTO/ DTO/ … to train for it. I also vaguely recall there are some alleviations for non-complex organisations – ATO should be able to qualify for that even when teaching IR, or am I mistaken? I recall they make a distinction between organisation providing training for CPL/ MPL/ ATPL and PPL/ SPL/ LAPL/ etc., I don’t recall making distinction based on IR. Yet I know an aeroclub which is an ATO and offers CPL/ IR. I mean a real aeroclub, voluntary association. Perhaps the issue is in the CAA.
We carry these out, also in owner aircraft, although it does mean that in autumn/winter you need sort of CAVOK conditions to take the checkride as the lowest airway join is FL90 and you will fly through visible moisture below 5oC in IMC. Hence most ATOs have FIKI aircraft.
Training also is in very light IMC due to icing.
How long does it take? The typical UK IMC rated PPL with around 100 hours of IMC, might expect 15 -18 hours of training, plus a pre check ride session of ground school. As the owner pilot is part time, weather and availability conspire to prolong the course.
The private aircraft should be presentable, including engine and systems suitable for aerial work, which in the UK means less than TBO and less than twelve years on the engine.
Despite arriving with useful experience, training usually brings out a need to raise the standard especially on: ATC comms, QDR tracking on a procedural approach, glide slope intercept, staying within limits on a CDFA, the last mile on an ILS, planning IMC for a diversion OCAS, RNAV GNSS theory and practice, and the great British fetish, the NDB hold. Also there is sometimes some knowledge gaps on own aircraft systems, and the examiner will want to explore knowledge of the aircraft and suitability for the checkride.
As always, it’s a matter of supply and demand.
Most IR candidates are career pilots. Hence, most flying schools cater for those (traditional IR courses) and are rather inadequate for the “private” pilot.
And then, there a few schools that somehow cater for the latter group, specifically promoting their more “flexible” solutions. AFAIK, Rate One is one of those in the UK. Flugschule Marl is one of those in Germany.
The problem is that those will be few and far between, making logistics a problem for most interested private pilots.
Peter wrote:
But yes AFAIK the ATPL ATOs still do the old 55hr JAA ME IR. No CB IR option.
Stapleford would do it when I asked (about 2 years ago now). I ended up not doing it with them, but only because I thought would dedicate entire days / weekends so the dedicated instructor at rate one would be a nice thing (and it was) (and going for 2-3 days training, one minds less the commute)
Bathman wrote:
Another problem is that you can’t get stand alone CBIR approval. It has to on the back of IR approval.
The following are shown in SD31 as having CB IR approval but not IR approval:
I know of one person who did it via an “unapproved simm” and also know of a FAA CPL/IR chap converting to an EASA IR in the same way.
They already have significant IFR hours logged to gain maximal CBIR credit. One via the FAA IR the other via an IMC rating.
If you have enough logbook hours to meet the conversion requirements, the use of an “unapproved sim” for additional practice is irrelevant. You could just as easily get good enough on FSX with a £10 “F16” joystick
FWIW, I never thought the fancy FTO sims are worth anything unless you will be flying the same plane for real. And most owners won’t be – most are flying SEPs.
Bathman wrote:
They pay the CAA over 20,000 pounds a year for all of their approvals and simply need the revenue of the traditional 55 hour IR.
Although I am not to familiar with the way this is done in France, I think it has to be a UK-specific situation.
I rarely set my foot in an aeroclub in France, but I know that there are several that do offer IR training, whether the French National IR (deprecated) or the CB-IR and are ATOs. That is either because they did get ATO status at a time where everybody thought it would be reUired for continue to train for the PPL, or because they wanted to provide IR training.
If an aeroclub in France, mainly based on volunteers (paid mechanic, secretary and one “chief pilot” as only paid instructor, the others being volunteers), manages to pull that off, unless some NAA does some goldplating it should be possible.
