Agreed, if they have time they’ll give you a “frequency change approved” . I’d say about half the time from my base. It only serves a purpose if you’ve told them you are e.g. intending to land at another very nearby airport in the hope that they’ll give you the frequency change well before you’re out of the departure airport’s Delta airspace. That way you can also pick up the ATIS for the destination before contact, if you move quickly. It’s also useful if you need to cross an adjoining airport’s Delta airspace without landing.
Otherwise the back and forth to leave an airport’s controlled airspace into Class E or G is wasted energy.
Silvaire wrote:
Otherwise the back and forth to leave an airport’s controlled airspace into Class E or G is wasted energy.
I don’t see what the back and forth should be here. SERA.4020 b is pretty clear. You have received a clearance, for instance to leave controlled airspace, and that clearance ends with some kind of “report” when this is done. This is normal controlled airspace logic. Any sort of confusion or “back and forth” stems from the fact that this logic is masked/hidden in the normal radio practice. It’s good airmanship to prevent/minimize confusion. It’s not the ATC that is responsible for initializing this report, even if they often will do it as part of the normal radio practice. It could also in many cases be a VFR reporting point, in which the pilot reports of course.
At ENVA we usually fly aerobatics within controlled airspace. 2-5000 feet typically, and the upper part will intrude into controlled airspace. This will also require clearance, an abbreviated flight plan (or could also be a full filed flight plan for that matter, it makes no difference). The same SERA 4020 b applies here, but in this case the tower will usually (but not always) explicitly say “report when finished” as part of the clearance.
You don’t have to call the departing tower after you land else where but you do need to close the flight plan otherwise search and rescue goes into action. To do so you can typically ask the AFIS to close it, alternatively if no one is there you can call AIS, specifically the local ARO. You could also potentially get help to close the flight plan if you call the ARO of the controlled airport where you departed from. If you departed on an abbreviated flight plan then this should already happen when you leave the controlled airspace of your departure airport when you call tower and ask to leave frequency, which you must do. Maybe you didn’t do this part?
hazek wrote:
If you departed on an abbreviated flight plan then this should already happen when you leave the controlled airspace of your departure airport when you call tower and ask to leave frequency, which you must do
Different practices I guess. I can’t remember ever having asked ATC to switch frequency. In controlled space or RMZ the frequency is a given. I have been told to stay on frequency a number of times for various reasons.
If you are told to stay on frequency you must still be in CAS.
I can’t remember ever having asked ATC to switch frequency.
Happened all the time at KPAO (and probably still does). They get busy. You can just switch, once you’re out of their airspace, but it’s polite to say “request frequency change” to which they invariably say “frequency change approved”.
I don’t recall ever having had to ask in France.
gallois wrote:
If you are told to stay on frequency you must still be in CAS.
I cannot remember it has ever happened in CAS. It has happened a few times flying within/across the TIZ/TIA of a closed AFIS airport. Even if closed, they are still RMZ and with their own frequency. I told Information I was switching to the tower frequency, and the reply was stay on frequency.
gallois wrote:
If you are told to stay on frequency you must still be in CAS.
I once got an advisory to stay on the frequency because of potentially conflicting traffic, to keep access to radar info (although it was not in CAS).
Silvaire wrote:
Yes, this is another area where the US usefully cuts down on theatrical procedure.
johnh wrote:
In my experience, there is always some kind of handoff, either “contact XYZ on 123.45” or “frequency change approved.”
I have to agree with johnh. ATC has a communication line with you, so it seems very natural to hang up at the end (whoever initiates it, and it has to be bidirectional). Even outside the zone, you’re expected to be in contact with them (and they should have a strip for you, since you might call back yourself). To me this is independent from the airspace / CAS / clearances.
My point was that inside CAS an ATCO can tell you to stay on frequency. OCAS an ATSO request/advise you to stay on frequency even if the FISO and the ATCO are the same person on the same frequency. I know it is splitting hairs, but we seem to do that sometimes.
In reality @johnh is right for France.
“frequency xxx.xxx on leaving thanks for your help/ have a good day” or whatever.
gallois wrote:
If you are told to stay on frequency you must still be in CAS.
Or in an RMZ.
