Hi there! I have been following this forum for a couple of years now and this is my first post as I am looking for some advice.
In facts, I just got my ppl November last year and I have already stumbled into one communication challenge with the tower.
Specifically, as I usually depart from a towered airport (class d) it is not always clear to me if I have to call the departing tower after I landed and I have flown VFR without a flight plan.
The tower told me once that every time I land I have to call them, as the clearance they give me to leave class d airspace is almost equivalent to a flight plan and they have to close it when I land..
Issue is that when I recently landed at an afis airport and called the departing tower to inform them I landed they were puzzled…
So question is: when you fly VFR without a flight plan and you depart from a towered airport (class d) do you have to call them once landed at a non towered/afis/ towered airport?
Thanks a million for any advice
Best
Valerio
val1821 wrote:
The tower told me once that every time I land I have to call them, as the clearance they give me to leave class d airspace is almost equivalent to a flight plan and they have to close it when I land..
Your request for a clearance to depart and leave controlled airspace, is a flight plan (SERA.4001(a) with GM) – but it only covers the part of the route in controlled airspace.
So question is: when you fly VFR without a flight plan and you depart from a towered airport (class d) do you have to call them once landed at a non towered/afis/ towered airport?
No. Your report of leaving controlled airspace closes the flight plan. (SERA.4020 b).
I guess there’s probably a country dependent aspect to this, but in France and the US at least the answer is Hell, No!
If you depart VFR without a flight plan (regardless of the status of the origin airport) then as you seen as you leave the airport’s airspace, you’re nothing to do with them any more.
Even if you were on a flight plan, you don’t call the departure airport to close it. If you arrive at a controlled airport they will close it for you. If not, in France and the US, there’s a centralised number you call.
Now for the UK, who knows, given that they seem to make it all up as they go.
The tower told me once that every time I land I have to call them, as the clearance they give me to leave class d airspace is almost equivalent to a flight plan and they have to close it when I land..
I would guess there was some misunderstanding there. Unlikely a tower controller said this, like that. Could it be that he meant was that you have to call him when leaving his comtrolled airspace? Because, as AA said, he has to close the FPL that you „filed“ by requesting a clearance to depart the CTR.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Your report of leaving controlled airspace closes the flight plan. (SERA.4020 b).
Often this happens automatic, without the pilot actively reporting leaving the airspace. It’s the ATC who contact the pilot saying “contact AAAA on BBBB for information” or similar, not the other way around. The ATC is not obliged to do so, and I can see that this can cause a bit confusion. It could also be that the other airfield is inside (below) the TMA of the first airfield, and the frequency is the same as the tower frequency. Normally, but not always, the pilot will switch to some local frequency for landing, and that will effectively close the flight plan.
It’s something with the logics of SERA that is not always fully compatible with the logics of communication.
Thanks, I’ve found that request strange indeed from the beginning, but all answers above well clarify the requirements. Thank you all, appreciated!
LeSving wrote:
Often this happens automatic, without the pilot actively reporting leaving the airspace. It’s the ATC who contact the pilot saying “contact AAAA on BBBB for information” or similar, not the other way around.
That is true, but I would think that ATC needs a reply in order to close the (abbreviated) flight plan.
In France some ATC will ask to “report leaving our airspace” others will say “report when leaving frequency” yet others will say "you are leaving our airspace contact xxx.xxx " It really depends where you are and where you are going.
Eg. Going to LFFK from LFBH it is generally the pilot who asks to change frequency although ATC might well give a little reminder. If you are going further afield but staying within the La Rochelle SIV there will be no necessity to change frequency because you more than likely will be talking to the same person. If however you are going to the North and about to leave LFBH airspace into Nantes SIV you might be advised to contact Nantes info.
You don’t have to talk to info if you don’t want to but it is advised to do so.
If you depart VFR without a flight plan (regardless of the status of the origin airport) then as you seen as you leave the airport’s airspace, you’re nothing to do with them any more.
Yes, this is another area where the US usefully cuts down on theatrical procedure. Depending on whether there is any traffic in the area for which traffic advisories are given, the last communication between a departing flight and the tower is very often the takeoff clearance.
Personally, as I leave a Class D I mostly listen in for a while (maybe 10 miles outside the Class D) to hear inbound traffic or just switch at my discretion to 122.75 (US air-to-air)
Also FWIW if traffic advisories are given by the tower as I depart the area, while I appreciate the thought they are most often a distraction as I’ve already identified them on ADS-B before I even start rolling.
the last communication between a departing flight and the tower is very often the takeoff clearance
In my experience, there is always some kind of handoff, either “contact XYZ on 123.45” or “frequency change approved.” Though at KPAO if they were busy – which they very often were – you might not get that. (And by “busy” I don’t mean “EASA busy” – one movement every 15 minutes – I mean KPAO busy – one movement every 30 seconds, for hours at a time).
