Peter wrote:
It is more fun now: you need 26 (twenty six) exams!
In UK or EASA-land?
13 for the UK CPL/IR
13 for the EASA CPL/IR
They are £70 each.
They are obviously going to be similar, but apparently not identical.
The UK ones have to be sat at CAA Gatwick. The EASA ones, I don’t know where you sit them.
In reality, you can go for a job with say Easyjet with just a UK CPL/IR, because they have loads of G-reg planes. It is only the pilots of the Austria-reg planes which are used for cabotage flights (wholly outside the UK) which need the EASA papers. I spoke to an Easyjet pilot some time ago and he said most EJ pilots were just flying G-regs. Here it says 113 out of a total of 313 were moved to Austria. That was in 2018.
Also, if you want a job where you actually get home after work 
then you may as well just get the UK papers.
And other avenues for conversion are likely to open up. Rumours circulating already. The aviation system has always been rigged to make entry hard, but once you are working for a commercial operator, cross-validations are normal if you have a job offer.
I’ve been looking at the same thing with regards to converting a US CPL/IR (with plenty of hours, more than 50 hours of actual by FAA standards, so well more than 50 hours of EASA IFR flight) to an EASA CPL/IR.
Step 1: validate my PPL(A) which (according to the Ro CAA) requires Air Law, Human Performance and VFR Communications.
Step 2: Do the modular CPL(A). This will require all the CPL knowledge tests.
Step 3: Do the CB-IR. This will require all the IR knowledge tests.
Step 4: Maybe do an ATPL one day, for the heck of it (because, why not?).
So, I’ve been considering whether to to an ATPL or CPL course for the knowledge tests. As I understand Part-FCL, taking the CPL tests applies for PPL and CPL. Taking the ATPL tests applies for PPL, CPL and ATPL. So taking the ATPL tests will satisfy every possible test requirement.
From the places that are convenient to me, no one seems to be doing CPL courses, it’s all ATPL, and one place I talked to said the price for CPL+IR knowledge tests would be about the same as for ATPL. So I’m thinking of just doing the full ATPL set.
Therefore, after completing the ATPL knowledge tests, I would have to:
1) Complete PPL(A) validation within 24 months of sitting the tests
2) Complete CPL(A) within 36 months of sitting the tests
3) Complete CB-IR within 36 months of sitting the tests
4) Complete ATPL (if I want to) within 7 years of getting the CB-IR
Looking at the material, the difference between the ATPL material and the CPL material doesn’t seem that significant, so it doesn’t seem like there’s a major reason NOT to do the ATPL knowledge tests, other than perhaps a small cost and time difference (which will be totally obviated by going to a nearby ATO for ATPL vs having to travel to an ATO for CPL).
Are there any other shortcuts that someone knows of to this process? Is there any way to shortcut the classroom training portion of the knowledge tests for ATPL? Taking some practice tests the only areas where I’m even slightly short is in Air Law, which I could doubtless brush up on in a couple of weeks, but as I understand it there’s no way to actually sit the tests without taking the classroom training portion first.
You do not need an EASA PPL. An ICAO PPL or higher meets the licence pre-requisite for enrolment in an EASA CPL modular training course.
The full CPL course is unlikely to be necessary. The ATO which evaluates you will provide an estimate that is appropriate to your needs and acceptable to the intended state of licence issue.
The CBIR/IR written exams are not required when applying as an ICAO IR holder with 50 PIC IFR hours. If you wish to hold an MEIR, 15 of those hours shall have been gained on multiengines. Some aberrant competent authorities interpret the rule improperly, eg the Irish Aviation Authority requires the exams.
“Complete ATPL (if I want to) within 7 years of getting the CB-IR”
The 7 year cut-off runs from the last validity date of an EASA IR, see FCL.025(c)(2)(i).
“Is there any way to shortcut the classroom training portion of the knowledge tests for ATPL?”
Sure, meet the EASA ATPL experience requirement and hold a valid multipilot type rating on the third-country licence. Art 3(c) in Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2020/723.
Thanks for the advice, and thanks so much for all who have posted about this — EuroGA has been an invaluable resource navigating this process.
So for the EASA ATPL experience requirements, is that an or list or an and list? That is, do I need all 5 items in FCL.510.A(b)?
Applicants for an ATPL(A) shall have completed a minimum of 1,500 hours of flight time in aeroplanes, including at least: (1) 500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes; […]
Assuming it’s a conjunctive list, even if I’m eligible for an FAA ATP, and go and get a cheap-ish type rating on a type that’s only a multi-pilot type (e.g. a Lear 23), I still wouldn’t be eligible for an EASA ATPL(A) since I don’t have 500 hours on a type that requires multiple crew? So how does anyone in Europe qualify for an ATPL? Or is this just my US-centric view of “no one flies jets without an ATP” interfering, and people get a CPL and go fly jets for a while and then do the ATP?
Update to my previous:
When you don’t need it, you don’t know exactly what it takes anymore. The FAA now requires a CTP course for a ME ATP, so … that’s not easy anymore either.
In conclusion, it sounds like I should really just focus on a CPL course and talk to ATOs about evaluating my existing skills and meeting the hourly requirements (which I do).
In Europe, most airline pilots come out of the FTO with what is called a “frozen ATPL” which is just a CPL/IR with the 13 ATPL exam passes. You cannot get an ATPL as a “course of study” etc, other than by paying for 500hrs in a full motion sim. They then look around for an airline which takes them on, they get the TR and fly in the RHS, and after 500hrs in the RHS they are given an ATPL, as a formality (I believe they have to fly an LPC; a sort of test which airline pilots do every 6 months or so).
In the US (I hold a US CPL/IR) the ATP is a standalone qualification. As you say, an ME ATP is not easily doable now. That change was done after some big crash.
I don’t know how to get an EASA ATPL based on non-European flying. There used to be a route that if you had 2500hrs on Part 25 (multi pilot) aircraft then your ICAO ATP was directly convertible (via an LPC, no doubt) but last time I looked I could not find any reference. The European system is designed to be hard to enter
I don’t know how to get an EASA ATPL based on non-European flying.
Sitting the exams, do some flying with the instructor and do some check flights. I have a friend who recently did that, so I can ask if you’re interested in details.
Peter wrote:
paying for 500hrs in a full motion sim
Funnily enough, I actually got offered a gig being a “pinch-hitter” SIC at a local sim center, (when they didn’t have enough people to exactly match up crews in twos). I would have had to pay for the type rating. Those hours suddenly look useful now.
do I need all 5 items in FCL.510.A(b)?
Yes, owing to the “and” at the end of point (b)(4). The same flight may count for several requirements. Without 500 hours in multipilot operations, it will be pointless upgrading the US pilot certificate.
