And the opposite example of LDLO that we like more 
because of relaxed approach to parking issue.
We have had this in Norway for some years now. https://www.myppr.no/
Most of the airports have «auto approval» of the PPRs, and the system is used to keep track of movements and landing fees (if any). Most doesn’t even care if you do the PPR until after you’ve been there.
The good thing is that myppr.no in most cases has a lot of useful information about the airport. Especially for airports that are not in the AIP or in the «NOTAM-system».
So, for the airports I normally fly to, this is a good thing mostly.
Peter wrote:
There are few reasons for PPR. I can think of these
Peter, in the UK I think the real reason is that none of the airfields can afford (or actually need) the real ATC with GND, TWP and APP, but some of the instructions that would have been given by ATC, regarding the routeing in the air/on the ground, etc have to be given somehow for the reasons you’ve mentioned above (planning permission, NIMBY neighbours, problems with hard surfaces etc). That is in effect a workaround which allows the AD administration to cover their backsides in the case of some dispute (you’ve been warned/instructed) and save them cost, as the alternative would be to have fully published procedures and full ATC which will give you instructions. PPR that can be done on-line (even when the AD administration is closed) is a good solution, I think – they could still brief you and you’ve still got a lot of flexibility, including arriving just after the AD opens etc.
Peter wrote:
There are few reasons for PPR. I can think of these
My main issue with PPR is not the hassle of requesting it before a flight. It is that the airport becomes useless as a diversion airport in flight. If things have escalated to a full emergency it is of course no problem, but the problem arises when you try to avoid things going that far.
Airborne_Again wrote:
My main issue with PPR is not the hassle of requesting it before a flight. It is that the airport becomes useless as a diversion airport in flight. If things have escalated to a full emergency it is of course no problem, but the problem arises when you try to avoid things going that far.
That IS a problem with some airfields – while many would accept you on a precautionary landing/diversion, the others would insist on a full PPR etc…
You also have to watch out for airports that creep from online PPR to online ‘ask and wait for confirmation’. Lee on Solent for instance. Then you have to wait for opening hours anyway, and even then still can’t just ring up. Sitting in the plane, you have to try to log into some website… Aaargh!
What I really don’t understand is why airport operators are putting up with their staff introducing these traffic deterrent firewalls. Don’t they know this malarky is driving people away? Unless they’re looking for planning permission for ’000s of houses, of course….
skydriller wrote:
Because if an aerodrome is open to the public, its open, I shouldn’t need to ask to fly there !!
Peter wrote:
There is an alternative way to save money, and it doesn’t involve an app: don’t have PPR
That is all very fine, if you think you can convince the authorities to do away with PPR. It works well in France.
But in many countries, PPR is an unfortunate fact of life. Every airport in Ireland is PPR. (Some choose not to enforce it, but legally it’s PPR). I presume it comes from the requirement to have the land owners permission to land there.
Almost all in the UK airfields are PPR. I was once told by someone at a UK airport, that they could register as a “Public use” airport, in which case they didn’t need PPR. But the down side for them was that they were then obliged to ensure that the airport was open and runways free of obstruction, airport staffed etc, during all published opening hours and they could be held liable if it wasn’t and they didn’t publish a NOTAM. That’s a big requirement on a small grass field, that might close simply because the runway was too wet. So most choose not, and instead register as private so that they don’t hold that responsibility. If you want to come, it’s your responsibility to check with them first.
If you think that you can convince the airport to re-register or change the rules that they operate under, then that would be brilliant.
But in the mean time, it would seem to me that automated online PPR is better than the current situation, requiring a telephone call.
I’ve often been in the position where I planned to do a trip on Saturday morning, but the decision was made only after work on Friday evening. That means that it’s too late to get PPR, and I have to wait until the morning. So if I’m trying to get an early start, that’s one more thing that has to be done on the morning. Depending on their opening hours, that may delay a departure, while I wait on them to open so that I can call to get PPR.
Being able to do it online, 24 hours a day, would be much better.
Indeed, I remember a number of years ago, trying to get PPR to go to Plockton. I spent a week calling and emailing but getting no answer. I thought I was going to have to cancel my trip, but luckily manged to get an answer the afternoon before. Online PPR would have made that much easier.
Yet, this relies on somebody in charge
So if a given airfield has nobody responding to your telephoned or emailed PPR request, they won’t be responding to this one either. Unless they regard PPR as just a joke, in which case the whole thing is just a joke and you will receive the permission in 1 second
So what has been achieved? Nothing.
We could provide this service via the EuroGA Airports server for free…
And now the dev has to write an android app (and test it on loads of android phones), an ios app (and test it on a load of ios phones), and maintain these for ever, and if he goes “offline” then all traffic to these places will stop, until this is discovered and the dev is contacted and gets around to fixing it. At least an intelligent person would do a website, not an app.
So most choose not, and instead register as private
Is that a real thing? I know Licensing is a real thing, but “private or public” registration? I wonder if @jacko knows.
while many would accept you on a precautionary landing/diversion
Just land there, surely.
The reason some airports did not want to participate in the Strasser (diversions getting no landing fee) scheme is because a certain % of Brits use it to get free landings.
Most of the airports have «auto approval» of the PPRs, and the system is used to keep track of movements and landing fees (if any). Most doesn’t even care if you do the PPR until after you’ve been there.
Exactly my point: it serves no purpose for “PPR”, and such a system is viable only where PPR is automatically given.
That is all very fine, if you think you can convince the authorities to do away with PPR. It works well in France.
Actually, “ouvert a la CAP” is unfortunately, for some of the regional airports in france becoming a thing of the past with PPR for fuel or parking… think Biarritz for example.
I was once told by someone at a UK airport, that they could register as a “Public use” airport, in which case they didn’t need PPR.
The problem is, that PPR is more often than not for aerodromes that are public use, with official entries in the AIP. This applies to France as well as the UK or Ireland, or anywhere else for that matter – in my view an aerodrome is either open to public use – ie in the AIP, or its private and you need to ask permission. I don’t know why this is such a hard concept for pilots, let alone airport/aerodrome managers to grasp.
Regards, SD..
For the 1st 15 years of my flying. No PPR was required ever.
Occasionally, if visiting an airfield I was less familiar with, that had a factor that concerned me, I may call up on the phone and ask for circuit information and maybe the local wx.
There was never an issue, but sometimes a friendly but detectable ‘tone’ of no ’need to phone me, just call on the radio as you arrive ’
If I recall correctly nothing bad ever happened, except the quality of some of my landings.
I’m never going to be convinced we need PPR for anything except a few special cases.
Fortunately I’ll probably stop flying by my own decision before the BS of this and other stuff forces me out.
