europaxs wrote:
boscomantico wrote: Equipment requirements are regulated by Part-NCO since 2016 (so eight years actually).On a recent request (2024) of the Oskar Ursinus Vereinigung (German Homebuilt Association) the LBA answered:
“….Diese Luftfahrzeuge dürfen in Deutschland IFR und NVFR-Flüge durchführen, wenn ihre Instrumentierung der FSAV entspricht und die Operating Limitations des Eintragungsstaates dieses erlauben…..”
Translation by DeepL:
“…These aircraft may operate IFR and NVFR flights in Germany if their instrumentation complies with the FSAV and the operating limitations of the country of registration permit this…”
Right, so a UK LAA IFR-approved aircraft could just fly through Germany as a normal CofA aircraft, without extra approvals?
Is there a link to that?
Thanks!
arj1 wrote:
Right, so a UK LAA IFR-approved aircraft could just fly through Germany as a normal CofA aircraft, without extra approvals?
Is there a link to that?
The general entry permission for ECAC homebuilts does not include IFR though. That’s were the LBA is currently working at…
Equipment requirements are regulated by Part-NCO since 2016 (so eight years actually).
Amen and thank you, fellow crusader!
It is amazing how stubborn the church of FSAV is being followed.
If I fly VFR, for example with RV7 to Spain from another EU country:
1. Do I need a permit?
2. Can I fly into controlled airspace (TMA, CTR)?
You can drown in the flow of information to find the truth :) But how is it in reality?
Neil_F wrote:
Update on my original question from discussions at Aero24 with PPL IR: INTERNATIONAL flights with a UK Night IFR homebuild aircraft (under a Permit to Fly and a “full” IR & PPL(A)):Ireland: Day VFR only
France: Day VFR only.
Germany: Day VFR only
Holland: Day VFR onlySo doesn’t appear to be much point in jumping through all the necessary hoops to get a Night IFR approval from the UK LAA.
If any of this is duff information please post a correction.
I’ve added the reference documents that I’ve found. Thanks for other commenters:
Ireland: Day VFR only “The aircraft shall be flown only in accordance with daytime Visual Flight Rules.” Rfef: https://www.iaa.ie/docs/default-source/publications/aeronautical-notices/a—-airworthiness-of-aircraft/an-a19-r7-jan-2017.pdf?sfvrsn=cab90df3_18. HOWEVER, the piece going on to say “The intent of this exemption is to allow aircraft enter or overfly Irish airspace without the need to apply for an individual exemption,…” so one might be able to get an individual exemption
France: Day VFR only. “the aircraft shall only be flown by day VFR”. As with Ireland there is a “… without prior permission from …” clause. Ref: https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/arrete_flight_amateur_built_2.pdf
Germany: Day VFR only “Flights must be conducted between SR and SS only.” Ref: https://www.lba.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Formulare/B1/B12_Einflug/Formulare_Deutsch/170105_Allgemeinerlaubnis_Selbstbau.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=3 "
Holland: Day VFR only “The operating conditions and limitations set by Civil Aviation Authority of the country of registry are applicable whilst operating in the airspace of the Netherlands.” So by my reading, IF night IFR approved THEN night IFR would appear to be OK in the Netherlands. Ref: https://eaip.lvnl.nl/web/2023-04-06-AIRAC/html/index-en-GB.html and http://avansrv.es/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Permit-to-fly-Netherlands.pdf
Whether the “prior permissions” can effectively be applied for I can’t comment on. Maybe this is the route for permissions in France which has been commented upon.
I hope this helps and any further information is welcome.
The above PDFs should be downloaded and uploaded locally, otherwise they are sure to be dead links very soon.
Some are dead already! PLEASE check your posts…
I downloaded the working links:
170105_Allgemeinerlaubnis_Selbstbau_pdf
arrete_flight_amateur_built_2_pdf
Permit_to_fly_Netherlands_pdf
Peter wrote:
otherwise they are sure to be dead links very soon
The main issue is that most of these are not regulations in the correct sense. They are more a reflection of how this roughly is practiced at the moment. The German “regulation” is simply a snippet from an ancient AIP from 1998, and superseded many times already by updated AIPs. These things may change overnight.
Unless it actually exist something in the current AIP, there’s only two outcomes:
It’s the quintessential “what can possibly go wrong” situation. It’s a personal thing depending how you imagine the worst case scenario to be. “Don’t wake sleeping bears” is a thing here also. If it’s not in the AIP, the reason is most likely this is something they don’t want to touch. Probably because they have no clear cut answer to all eventualities. Sleeping bears are usually best left alone.
Gathering information in one document is of course a good thing.
LeSving wrote:
The German “regulation” is simply a snippet from an ancient AIP from 1998, and superseded many times already by updated AIPs. These things may change overnight.
The link is to the appropriate section of the German CAA site. There is nothing else than the ancient document from 1985 as far as general entry permission for ECAC homebuilts into Germany goes. That is one of the reason why the Luftfahrtbundesamt will come up with an updated version “soon”.
Some dead links above!!
I downloaded the rest above.
It’s the quintessential “what can possibly go wrong” situation. It’s a personal thing depending how you imagine the worst case scenario to be. “Don’t wake sleeping bears” is a thing here also. If it’s not in the AIP, the reason is most likely this is something they don’t want to touch. Probably because they have no clear cut answer to all eventualities. Sleeping bears are usually best left alone.
Well, yes, that just about summarises the whole debate. Most flyers ignore the regs – both those which can be found and those which can’t. What one must not do is pretend it is something else, because one day, if you have a bad enough crash, with 3rd party claims into millions, someone might choose to dig deeper.
Peter, the Irish PDF file attached here as well.
an_a19_r7_jan_2017_pdf
