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600 Kg Aircraft

It is not strictly speaking the DGAC which demands the 500kg/ 525kg with parachute/ 550kg?? (with floats), it is the FFPULM. In other words the pilot’s federation. With the 600kg there are many other licence/medical/certification restrictions which the French federation of ULM pilots do not wish to sign up to. These restrictions move away from the “self declaration” which the FFPULM of licences/medical/maintenance etc.that they wish to safeguard. They become much nearer then to LSA, certification and the LAPL.

France

I did not say that it was DGAC to demand the limitation of MTOW of ULM. Of course, we know it was the microlight federation. But DGAC is responsbile for overseeing compliance with airspace and airworthiness rules in France, and that is where they get into play.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Of course, 1) it’s federation FFPULM that wanted to keep things in 500kg/525kg for the obvious reasons you mentioned, mostly keeping the lid on liberty of ULM flying while being unregulated with lot freedom for medical, training, maintenance, platforms…which is really a good thing in my opinion

https://ffplum.fr/editorial/editos/1112-ulm-a-600-kg-non-200-ulm-oui

Having said that, 2) it’s the DGAC who does not give blanket flying approval to 600kg WT9 for say Belgian pilot flying it with his Class 1 medical using ATPL+SEP

I think we are talking about 2) here not 1)

Edit: crossed with boscomantico post

Last Edited by Ibra at 25 Aug 13:47
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Actually @Ibra I don’t think you are correct there. A Belgian pilot flying a ULM of 600kg on an ATPL +SEP licence on a WT9 has no restrictions AFAIUI.
The restriction is on flying a 600kg on a ULM licence with no medical. Providing that the pilot/licence/medical etc meets the regulations of the country of registration?
I’m not sure where the UK fits exactly because I’m not sure of where the microlight licence fits into the scheme of things. I also believe that for a French pilot to fly an F-J reg in Spain s/he needs a Class2 medical. But things are changing year by year. But I don’t see France going to 600kg anytime soon and if they do I would also see the FFPLUM pushing for Night VFR and possibly even IFR to be allowed.
There are around 16000 ULMs in France according to the figures released earlier this year. I don’t know if they include all 6 categories of ULM. But for the most part IMO ULM pilots here are content possibly even happy with their lot and they don’t want the boat rocked at thr moment for no good reason.

France

Nope. When the French goverment writes:

it is clear and categorical. ANY foreign 600kg-microlight must get a permit from France before entering the country.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

The restriction is on the aircraft, anything factory UL = 600kg need DGAC permit

Then, any pilot flying VL3 in France will need Class 2 or LAPL medical

The restriction is on flying a 600kg on a ULM licence with no medical. Providing that the pilot/licence/medical etc meets the regulations of the country of registration?

That is not true, unless you are saying Belgian pilot in his 600ks VL3 can fly to Blois without Class 2 Medical or LAPL medical between 2nd to 4th September as per that letter? I don’t think that is true neither

Ignore homebuilts, amateurs and vintages? maybe it’s what is causing confusion here? that is a separate agreement, I can fly G-reg small weight warbird replica of Spitfire that I built in my hangar with Pilot Medical Declaration in France…but that is homebuilt kits not factory ULM !!!

Last Edited by Ibra at 25 Aug 15:31
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

No. What I am saying is that AFAIK there is no reason why a Belgian Pilot holding an LAPL, PPL or ATPL plus a class 1 or class 2 medical cannot fly a 600kg VL3 in France providing they can fly it in Belgium. But I will check up on that when I get home. I seem to remember something in the latest FFPULM magazine.

The Blois derogation would seem to be on the lines of the Belgian pilot in his 600kg VL3 can fly it to Blois during those dates on whatever licence and medical or self declaration that they would need to fly in Belgium.

But as I say I will double check with FFPULM.

Last Edited by gallois at 25 Aug 15:57
France

As seems to be happening more and more these days I have put magazine containing the article I wrote about somewhere and now for the life if me can’t find it.
However, here is the ULM booklet for 2019 in English.Microlight2019_pdf
Apologies if I have posted in the past.
On page 11 referring to the 600kg upweight in brackets it says (which wont be microlights in France). It goes onto say that you would need a temporary permission etc.
From memory the article states that that temporary permission is to use the 600kg MTOW aircraft under the same regulations as those for French ULM.
However, the article then points out that even before the 600kg upgrade there were aircraft in the MTOW weight range between 450kg and 600kg. These fell into various categories eg experimental, kit built, LSA, VLA etc. For these nothing has changed. Where you needed temporary permission to fly in France beforehand you still need it, where you didn’t such as in the bilateral reciprocal agreements with countries like the UK you did not. The licence and medical needed is in those cases decided by the country of registr
ation/ residence?
Whether there are reciprocal agreements between France and Belgium I do not know. I also do not know what category a VL3 comes under but whether one needs permission to fly it in France or not I would still expect the pilot to need an EASA PPL SEPA or and EASA LAPL SEPA.
So really the only thing that has been changed regarding flying microlights in France is that the MTOM has been upped by 50kg.
For anyone actually thinking of going to Blois for MULM I note they are advising the use of Skyview traffic system. AIUI you can get a code from the organisers which will give you free use of Skyview for a period of one month. You may already be aware of this.

France

I am about to give up… but one last time. Things DO have changed.

In the past twenty years, thousands of German microlight pilots have flown to France using their 472.5kg ultralights. No formalities and zero trouble with the DGAC, over all those years. In fact, previously, it was written nowhere that these needed a permit to fly in France.

Today, it is written very clearly on the French goverment website that a German ultralight with an MTOW of 600kgs needs a permit to fly in France.

That IS a major change for the German and European microlight scene.

The only consolation is that likely this requirement will not be routinely enforced by France. But then it still leaves a sour taste for such foreign pilots wishing to visit France in their shiny new 600kg ultralights, because if an accident happens while flying in France, insurance might potentially find out that the aircraft has been flying illegally in France. Germans in particular like to comply with rules. But they don’t like doing paperwork (especially not UL pilots!) with authorities and pay money for a short jolly to Haguenau.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 26 Aug 09:16
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

From memory the article states that that temporary permission is to use the 600kg MTOW aircraft under the same regulations as those for French ULM

What do you mean by this?

One need temporary permission for OO-reg 600kg VL3 to overfly French airspace and land in French aerodromes, it’s crystal clear and there is no other way (while pilots and regulators don’t cares, you still need to budget 200k if you ever crash, that’s a lot of money), such pilot does not give a hoot about “using 600kg under same regulation as those for French ULM”, he just want to fly over & land at while complying with rules of the air, so not sure which “ULM regulations” you are referring to? other than those to enter airspace and land?

Even if you magically fly OO-reg 600kg VL3 in France under “Avion regulations” (e.g. say you swear to God that you will be landing in aerodromes only ), you still need the temporary permission !!

Last Edited by Ibra at 26 Aug 08:46
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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