Most important is Mutual Respect & Trust !
If this does not exist between shop personel and acft owner then business will be very difficult, hence why he showed you the door …
Wow! So many replies. Allow me to tell the story with more details.
Before my appointment today I was in an email exchange with the person running their maintenance shop. It is a larger shop and I wanted to use their service in order to avoid flying someplace else. During the email exchange I explained that I’m a first time owner and this is my first time for maintenance. I also explained that I am using SavvyMX from the US as consultants and that they have helped during the pre-buy.
Today I showed up and was greeted by a different person as the other had to leave because of something. The emails were found and I explained again that I’m new to this business and would like it to be taken through it step by step and slowly so that I can understand and learn how to best work together.
The mechanic came and we went through the checklist SavvyMX had provided me with. We talked briefly about N-reg, CAMO, Cirrus’ instructions for a 50 hours maintenance and the question was what Savvy’s role were. I explained that they are helping me as consultants. He made a copy of their checklist and we went outside to move the plane into the hangar.
It turned out that my plane had to be moved out of the way first to allow another to exit the hangar. As the way was forward I offered to start the engine as I don’t have a towbar. I also asked about buying a towbar, as they also have a huge parts shop next door. Immediately they said that they don’t have the ones for Cirrus.
Then another guy showed up and they wanted to move the plane forward by pulling on the wing tips. I politely asked them to let me move the plane using the engine and explained to one who had worked at a Cirrus shop before what had happened to the other Cirrus I wasn’t able to buy due to the repair. The ex-Cirrus guy promised to find a suitable towbar. He had heard about such incidents and understood. Then all got called away to move another aircraft.
While they were moving the other aircraft their manager showed up and while approaching me from the distance began to say “Your aircraft cannot be pushed by hand. this is starting good.” I replied that for sure it can be moved by hand and mentioned the other experience. His reply was that turbulence also moves the wings and he doesn’t want my business. His attitude was aggressive and unfriendly and he was unwilling to listen. So I decided not to start a fight over receiving service and left.
Today it is quite hot around here and I noticed that a lot of people are acting a bit odd. That is quite common around here and people are more aggressive and their fuses seem to be very short on days like today. But then it is also the old tale about lack of service culture. I would never ever treat a customer, whom I’ve met for 5 minutes, like that. Especially not when the guy explains to me that he is new to this and wants explanations and take it slow. I would rather assign someone to guide him through the process instead of showing him the door over a simple concern.
Hello Stephan,
your explanation explains a lot, but then, imagine yourself in their position for a moment. As a highly trained and experienced professional that I am sure you are, how would you react to a newbie customer who tells you how to do your job? These people have probably pushed aircraft around since several decades. They know what an aircraft wing can withstand. I have never heard or witnessed of any damage inflicted to an aeroplane with solid wings being pushing with bare hands. But I have seen a lot of damage on aircraft being towed whose wingtips or tails (invisible or barely visible to the person operating the tug or holding the towbar) were pushed into something. So personally I would rather be afraid of towing than pushing…
But what I think must disturb them even more is your American consulting company that you want to be in control (to some extent) of the maintenance being done on your plane. Again, if they are a competent and experienced business holding the necessary licenses to maintain your aircraft, they don’t need someone remotely supervising their work. I at least wouldn’t want that. And with enough other business on hand, I would probably refuse to work under this kind of “nannying”. Just as they did…
But maybe, sitting down with them and talking it through in person instead of via email will save the day?
Regards
Max
what_next wrote:
Hitting something with the wingtip and being pushed on the wingtip are completely different load cases. A modern all-composite aircraft structure like that can easily handle a gentle push on the wingtip. But then, what do I know?
Let me tell what I learned earlier when I was unable to buy Cirrus where this has happened. And please keep in mind that I’m relaying information only.
Wings move up and down but not forward or backward. Due to the huge lever of the wing even little forces pulling or pushing the wing tip will end up being huge forces applied to the base of the wing. In the case of G2 Cirrus the little force grew that much that is caused a crack in the composite behind the root of the wing. The damage was visible underneath the rear seats. As this was detected during a pre-buy examination and required a repair in cooperation with Cirrus Engineering it was considered major damage. Subsequently no financing for the purchase could be obtained due to damage history.
One of the mechanics I met today had worked at a Cirrus shop and he did know about this and understood to be more careful. There seems to be a point where a little becomes a little too much due to the amplifying effect of the huge lever.
what_next wrote:
But maybe, sitting down with them and talking it through in person instead of via email will save the day?
Just like an electrical starter: let it cool down and try again 
what_next wrote:
As a highly trained and experienced professional that I am sure you are, how would you react to a newbie customer who tells you how to do your job?
When I wanted to give operating instructions on a test flight, the skygod professional told me “it’s a damn Cessna, don’t tell me how to fly it” and a minute later he overboosted the turbo.
It’s my airplane, it’s worth 6 digits, they want my business, they have to respect me and my wishes. If Stephan doesn’t want his airplane to be pushed by the wingtips, then they shouldn’t do it. Customer first. If the company is not in need of his business then he shouldn’t go there in the first place.
what_next wrote:
But what I think must disturb them even more is your American consulting company that you want to be in control (to some extent) of the maintenance being done on your plane. Again, if they are a competent and experienced business holding the necessary licenses to maintain your aircraft, they don’t need someone remotely supervising their work. I at least wouldn’t want that. And with enough other business on hand, I would probably refuse to work under this kind of “nannying”. Just as they did…
Yes. That is like a major factor here.
In the US SavvyMX is very, very popular and they happen to work with a huge portion of the Cirrus fleet over there. For some reason in Europe it seems to be that shops either completely refuse or play well with them. The owner of Savvy is Mike Bush.
Why would it be difficult for a shop to have a customer who uses a technical consultant? I would never object that as a service provider.
Oh! And yes, I’m trying to talk to them. Wasn’t possible on the spot but I am trying. It’s a question of just being a human being talking to another human.
what_next wrote:
As a highly trained and experienced professional that I am sure you are, how would you react to a newbie customer who tells you how to do your job?
If a customer (new or old) asks me to jump in circles on the left leg only while I do my job, I’ll jump in circles on the left leg only.
Hhmh, no I won’t. But essentially you do what the customer asks you to do. You’re providing a service the customer is paying for and if the customer wants it done this way or that way, you try to accommodate that. If you’re really meaning well, you’ll explain in a nice way why you think your way might be better/equally good, but it’s the customer who has the final say. Especially if the customer trusts you with their airplane worth multiple 100k. If you can’t do that as a service provider, you have no place in any service business. That applies to the wing-tip pushing as well as the oversight by an external company.
Plus at the end of the day, it’s the tone that makes the difference. Cleary Stephan hasn’t been treated with the appropriate respect by the manager. I can’t see any excuses for that – certainly not the ego of a multiple-decades experienced wing-tip pusher.
Patrick wrote:
If you can’t do that as a service provider, you have no place in any service business.
Yes and no. During the 90ies and 2000nds I was mainly living from freelance work as aerospace engineer, mostly programming/maintaining/adapting technical software that was then used to design and build large aeroplanes. My customer would give me a specification, some test cases and a time frame. How I did the actual work was entirely my business. And I would not have accepted any interference. But in these days, there was more work to do than specialists who could do it, so I could work by my own rules – even as a service provider…
The bizjet company I fly for now has some customers who do their own audits, some of them every year. But they don’t try to influence the way we do our work – they just look closely what we do and decide if they can entrust their CEOs and other executives to our way of flying. So there is some kind of supervision but we would not tolerate the least interference.
… is expressing a concern interference?
I think as a service provider one also consults and advises customers.
