Interesting story. All companies will have problems occasionally, nobody gets it right all of the time, but the mark of a good company is how they behave when something goes wrong and this one seems to have handled it exceptionally well. Naturally you would rather it didn't happen at all but as long as humans build engines these thing will happen.
Still, this is rather embarrassing for the overhaul shop. It's a certified aircraft engine after all and not something unimportant that can be fixed until it works.
What was the exact reason and in which way have they modified their procedures to ensure that this can never happen again? Those are the questions I would have asked them or the FAA in case they didn't have a satisfying answer.
I bet they would ask you to remove the posting if they happen to find it.
They should not succeed in getting a posting removed if it is factually correct.
I used to read e.g. the Aviation Consumer mag quite a lot (I don't have a current login but used to have one) and it has printed some astonishing stuff which would trigger immediate legal action if it was not truthful.
There are a few aspects to this that puzzle me:
Anybody can have a bad day, or bad luck, but twice in a row is very curious.
I don't know if this engine is a Lyco or Conti but why not use original manufacturer's parts? There is quite a history of non-original engine parts giving trouble on a large scale. Lots of non-Lyco cylinders gave trouble (I don't recall the make) and Superior parts also had problems. OTOH if you bought a Superior Lyco-type engine, the company covered the SB569 crank swap while Lyco themselves did not, so it's a variable blessing... The engine shop I used (Barrett Precision) use Lyco cylinders because they find them the best.
In its 2740hrs, what was the usage history of that engine? Corrosion generally means sitting around for months. If that was the case, it is 100% definitely not good to run the engine for so long. It is OK to run "on condition" engines that are frequently run (e.g. every week) and there is loads of data to support that. But "hangar queens" suffer across the board. I don't suppose you (Ben) flew the whole 2740hrs yourself because apart from a very few private owners that is a huge amount of flying.
I would not hesitate to send my engine to Barretts again (they are not EASA 145 so AFAIK the engine can't go onto an EASA-reg, and I don't know what has happened to the DAR 8130-4 route) except for the huge cost of reliable shipping. You can read on account from 2008 here. Packing the engine is easy enough, in a big box. The problem is freight. It is still about £500 today (250kg) but that is a "monkey shipping firm". A decent courier like DHL would charge about £3000 (these prices are each way). I would still pay it but can understand why most won't.
I did "due diligence" on Zephyr in 2008 for the above job but decided to use Barrett. I don't have the details to hand.
In europe I would gofor Nicolson McLaren.
That's the firm which gets the most consistent customer satisfaction reports in the UK.
The business case for a US overhaul shop breaks down with shipping, especially like in the case above where they have to correct faulty work. There are good overhaul shops in Europe and it is a lot about craftsmanship anyway.
One keeps reading about this "fly every week" and corrosion stuff. I have not heard of an engine that stopped working due to internal corrosion. It can be a factor when deciding when to overhaul but I think it is greatly overrated.
Will answer all questions towards end of the week, have 4h. drive ahead of me right now. By the way, Marshal informed the FAA and they went to have a look.
The business case for a US overhaul shop breaks down with shipping,
I don't think it does - the US is sooo much cheaper - but it will be a big factor espcially if you are after the cheapest possible job (which many are).
especially like in the case above where they have to correct faulty work.
Normally, warranty issues are dealt with by the US shop authorising a European shop to do the repairs.
But the best way to avoid this is to use a good shop in the first place! A warranty on an engine is a bit like a warranty on a parachute...
There are good overhaul shops in Europe and it is a lot about craftsmanship anyway.
Very very few, and it is damn hard to get any consensus on most of them. It is the lack of consistency which is the "European plague" in aviation. It's the same in avionics. The same 145 company can do a good job for one customer and this for another one. How do you explain that?
One keeps reading about this "fly every week" and corrosion stuff. I have not heard of an engine that stopped working due to internal corrosion. It can be a factor when deciding when to overhaul but I think it is greatly overrated.
Rust is not usually going to suddenly stop an engine running, usually. I do however know someone whose engine very nearly seized due to heavy corrosion during engine storage.
What rust will do nicely is mess up the camshaft and other bits, and once these start to fall apart, they tend to do so fairly fast. Combine this with a lack of opening the oil filter and a lack of oil analysis, and you have an engine making maybe 10-20% less power, and combine that with a pilot who never notices...
Commander
In europe I would go for Nicolson McLaren.
Peter
That's the firm which gets the most consistent customer satisfaction reports in the UK.
I just had an (indirect, I rent the aircraft) experience with them (AOG with broken part in starter motor assembly), a wrong part arrived from the US (similar part, wrong thread) and they somehow managed to rustle up a replacement the same day, and couriered the assembly back to Biggin at 10pm so it could be fitted next morning. They refused extra payment, although they incurred extra cost, both for the fix and the delivery.
Time will tell about the quality of the repair, but their attitude to customer service, based on a sample of one, is second to none.
Achima
What was the exact reason and in which way have they modified their procedures to ensure that this can never happen again?
The first time the camshaft had bad metal (what ever it means) or in my opinion did not have the correct heat treatment. If I am correct it was an ECI part. The second time the tooth that came off had an internal flaw, the photo that was sent to me showed a dark dot in the centre and from there you could see how the built up, this gear was not replaced during the o/h. As for procedures I can’t answer.
I bet they would ask you to remove the posting if they happen to find it.
I am not sure, after all they have treated me in a correct manner, did the work and covered all cost including shipping (I paid something towards it the first time) which was not their responsibility. I would recommend them to any person who is looking for a good shop. I know a guy who owns 5 aircraft, he removes the engine and send them over just asking for the bill, this guy goes down into the smallest detail and when not happy you will know about it.
Peter
I don't know if this engine is a Lyco or Conti but why not use original manufacturer's parts?
Engine is IO540 260hp. I did not want Lyco. Cyl. due to rust issues. My choice was ECI’s Chrom/Nickel (I think they are called Cermnickel), as for the rest I did not have an input, however, don’t forget that at the time ECI did have a good name and there were no AD’s against their products.
In its 2740hrs, what was the usage history of that engine? Corrosion generally means sitting around for months. If that was the case, it is 100% definitely not good to run the engine for so long. It is OK to run "on condition" engines that are frequently run (e.g. every week) and there is loads of data to support that. But "hangar queens" suffer across the board. I don't suppose you (Ben) flew the whole 2740hrs yourself because apart from a very few private owners that is a huge amount of flying.
The o/h that I carried was the second o/h. Out of the 2740 hours I flew about 450-500h in 3 years, before me the aircraft lived in the C.I for 5 years and prior to that was used as an air-taxi in the US.
The problem is freight. It is still about £500 today (250kg) but that is a "monkey shipping firm". A decent courier like DHL would charge about £3000 (these prices are each way). I would still pay it but can understand why most won't.
I disagree. DHL, FedEx are not shipping companies, they are couriers and they will use their aircraft to deliver your engine to the o/h shop within 3-4 days. A shipping company will use whatever airline is available and will deliver within 7 days. I used Menzies and the cost was about £1000 both ways.
Achima
There are good overhaul shops in Europe and it is a lot about craftsmanship anyway.
When I O/H it was between 4 shops, CSE that did not inspire me, Superior who were new to the market, Eisenberg in Southend and another one which I forgot their name. Zephyr had (and still has) a very good name and the $/£ was 1.75 which made the US very attractive.
As I said, if I was in the US I would have no problem using them again, however, since than two new shops were opened in the UK which meets the standard that I would demand, one is McLaren and the other (lost the details) is run by a South African guy.
