Mooney_Driver wrote:
Time to do things you like to do is the much higher problem and commodity than money in many cases. That I think is the point he is trying to make and I fully agree out of my own experience.
I do think time is a real challenge and I too have had a long period (10 years) where time to fly was impossible. But that still has nothing to with elitism.
There are only 3 ways I know of making loads of money without killing oneself and without having loads of money to start with:
The first one is what I have been trying to do since 1978, and it is surprisingly easy to exceed any likely normal-job salary this way. The hard bit is identifying products which people want, and for many reasons it is getting harder every year. But if you hang out in some industry as an employee, you may see opportunities… and you will pick up contacts.
Of course there are others e.g. inventing something and patenting it, but extremely few people achieve that.
Le Swing, I’m certain the situation you describe is not the one Chuck Glider was referring to. I’ve experienced the same Club situations as CG mentioned, in the same Aero Clubs. 
In my limited experience there are those who seem to like the idea of belonging to a flying club whether or not their annual, or even their total flying experience amounts to anything.
There are those indeed. A large part of them are former pilots, who still like to keep in touch. The fewest are slightly annoying, most are just kind old men who can tell funny stories. Understandable, and not really a nuisance.
JasonC wrote:
I do think time is a real challenge and I too have had a long period (10 years) where time to fly was impossible. But that still has nothing to with elitism.
Jason, please note that I never ever spoke of “elitism in GA”. The thread title was written by Peter when he split off my post. I never even mentioned elitism. The thread started with me quoting Airborn Again:
Sure, if you’re thinking about owners of high end tourers. But the point of having clubs is to make flying affordable even to people with average incomes.
Who was writing that in response to Peter saying
This is really tangential to the topic but if you have a bunch of say 10-20 people operating SEPs and between them they cannot get 100k (the cost of one Annual, perhaps) together to ensure a good operating base, they are in the wrong business.
And that post is what I am talking about. The notion of 10 or 20 people easily financing 100 k on the spot is what I disagree with, if one agrees with the notion
But the point of having clubs is to make flying affordable even to people with average incomes.
I can change the title to a better one… just looked up the definition of “elitism” and it isn’t what I thought it was.
Excellent title, got us all excited!
The aim of anyone seriously interested in GA as a recreational activity is that it should be affordable for people with average incomes.
Of course that makes sense. GA is in enough trouble as it is without excluding anyone. There should continue to be ways to participate at all income levels.
MedEwok wrote:
The aim of anyone seriously interested in GA as a recreational activity is that it should be affordable for people with average incomes
Just a point of reference. My youngest son (17) flew his first solo yesterday. Financed by his own money.
MedEwok wrote:
The notion of 10 or 20 people easily financing 100 k on the spot is what I disagree with, if one agrees with the notion
Well, that is between 5 and 10 k per person to turn a grass runway into an asphalt one? Considering that it will be quite a lot more people available to collect money from in such an event and that most people would gladly contribute, that is not really something for an form of elite either. If someone told me they would asphalt the closest airfield around here if I were to contribute, I´d certainly think about it very much. not for 10k up but certainly up to 5k, sure. The advantage of an asphalt runway over a grass one is so extreme that in that case financing it would be the easiest thing at all! What is next to impossible is to get planning permission for it as the green crowd will go bonkers and beyond!
