To return to the original question I regard a flight plan as something I have to file and get accepted, and quite distinct from the actual flight, which may or may not bear any resemblance to the filed and accepted plan. Often you don’t know the arrival you’re going to get anyway, sometimes the runway changes, etc. etc.
We often just plan to the airfield and alter the plan in the nav system whilst en-route, usually during the descent.
That is one reason I always set up the GPS in OBS mode with a DCT to the airport, for basic situational awareness of where the LOC lies. This is priceless.
Wouldn’t loading the approach procedure on the GPS achieve the same thing? Don’t you do that?
your KFC225 and most of the KFC systems can intercept from above. To intercept from above, one must command a greater descent rate than the GS would require which would mean using VS or pitch vertical mode in addition to APR. The KFC logic for GS capture is that any vertical path which causes the V CDI to pass thru center from above or below will capture. For capture from below, Alt hold will do if you are positioned below the GS.
Thanks for that, @NCYankee 
Now I remember. One chap I flew with (John Mariani – the well known Jetprop specialist) showed me that going into EGHH a few years ago.
intercepting a LLZ side-lobe is actually much worse than intercepting a false glideslope
That is one reason I always set up the GPS in OBS mode with a DCT to the airport, for basic situational awareness of where the LOC lies. This is priceless.
It does strange things if the GS is reversed. I had it once, due to an error in an installation manual, and flew an ILS with it intentionally (in VMC) to see what happens. It took a little while before it became obvious. But that was on the 3 deg GS, not the 6 deg sidelobe.
Pirho wrote:
To really nitpick
What do you mean? That’s exactly what we are here for!
if in this case you are cleared to 2500’ at a point which is 80’ above the glideslope, you are still able to establish there. It is not recommended to capture from above but it is not forbidden and done every day in commercial ops. In this case 80’ above is likely to be within half scale deflection anyway (unless it’s really hot!) and therefore generally accepted to be established regardless.
Intercepting from above is potentially bad because you may pick up a false glideslope. However, if you have a way to determine that you are indeed intercepting the correct glideslope, then you should be OK, right?
In this case you have a fix (ROU) that you know the GS crosses at 2.420’. If you are in the correct ballpark, you have the right glideslope… And you have another opportunity to cross-check at D4,0 RN.
This brought me to thinking that intercepting a LLZ side-lobe is actually much worse than intercepting a false glideslope. I believe that brought down a Norwegian airliner in 1972.
Peter, your KFC225 and most of the KFC systems can intercept from above. To intercept from above, one must command a greater descent rate than the GS would require which would mean using VS or pitch vertical mode in addition to APR. The KFC logic for GS capture is that any vertical path which causes the V CDI to pass thru center from above or below will capture. For capture from below, Alt hold will do if you are positioned below the GS.
In the US, once around the hold would be mandatory if it is charted. There are only 4 exceptions:
1) flying a segment or route that is charted as NoPt
2) being vectored to final
3) cleared “straight in”
4) when timed approaches from a hold are being used
The MSA circle is the same as the ILS platform
I agree with both above, but many/most GA autopilots won’t intercept the GS if the APR button is pushed above the GS. Maybe mine (KFC225) will and maybe I have even tried it but I can’t remember it.
The self-positioning I did was a very small deviation from the preceeding track. Probably a 20-30 degree left turn. I have the GPS track stored on my tablet… The Eurocontrol tracking ended long before the airport, for some reason…
In theory you are responsible for your obstacle clearance at all times except when being vectored. Of course if you hit a rock while being vectored, the ATC guy will still be alive at the end of it… and there are reports from some southern countries of such vectors being issued (and spotted).
It’s an interesting Q whether such a self-position is actually “illegal” given that there cannot be any obstacle clearance difference between this
and this
Obviously it is a bit “below the belt” to do that, and for sure you would fail your IR test with it…
The strictly textbook thing to do would be to fly the procedure turn.
There were a few other “textbook” options available to him
Pragmatically he turned to intercept the LLZ NE of ROU – at a further distance. IOW he “radar vectored” himself to a convenient distance.
Yes, I noticed the GS intercept point being outside the DCT fix, so I turned outwards a bit so as to intercept the GS from below. Technically you are correct; a procedure turn is required IAW “classical IFR”. I would always self-position, once cleared for the ILS.
Please forgive me as Ido not have access to the airport plates at the minute and I am unfamiliar. I am interested in this discussion and although slightly off topic could still be useful for someone getting used to IFR.
I fly to more than a few airports that have an ILS with no radar. These will all predictably clear us for the approach via an IAF. However most of the time if asked they will clear you to self position, which allows you to do what it sounds like Peter did, albeit you are going to be responsible for your own terrain clearance (which ultimately you always are anyway, even in the cases when ATC should be).
To really nitpick, if in this case you are cleared to 2500’ at a point which is 80’ above the glideslope, you are still able to establish there. It is not recommended to capture from above but it is not forbidden and done every day in commercial ops. In this case 80’ above is likely to be within half scale deflection anyway (unless it’s really hot!) and therefore generally accepted to be established regardless.
tomjnx wrote:
I have been on an airway in croatia and got a huge vectored detour because the airway went straight through an active military area.
Because of large number of Croatian military aircrafts 7 in total including one that flies only on air-shows.
