However, the bit of air where you got handed to Paris Control varied over the years with altitude.
This whole topic is tied in with the well known issue of IFR traffic entering the UK getting dumped before reaching the LTMA, with its IFR clearance quietly terminated (because most people doing this are flying off-airway). This issue has been related to how high you had to be at the point you got handed over from France to UK ATC. Only Paris Control had a letter of agreement with London Control, so if you were talking to say Lille you got handed to London Info and got shafted. Years ago, Paris Control would handle you only at/above about FL120. So to maintain an IFR clearance you had to be on oxygen! These days, you can get Paris Control at FL100.
But you should be able to fly around in the widespread French Class E VFR up to FL115, which is definitely Paris Control in the above context…
Or is there some other “Paris”?
In years past, I totally failed to get a clearance for VFR above FL105 in the south east of France too.
Peter wrote:
VFR in the Class D (FL120-200) was always banned by notam over a huge area, but I am not sure how big this area was.
If memory serves me right, it is banned in the airspace controlled by Paris only. Cannot remember the reference.
I am pretty sure France used to be Class A FL200+.
VFR in the Class D (FL120-200) was always banned by notam over a huge area, but I am not sure how big this area was. I don’t know the reason; it was speculated that it was to prevent 2T+ turboprops flying at FL195 “VFR” and saving the IFR charges. A lot of TP traffic does try that because it saves quite a bit of money and the fuel burn isn’t bad enough at FL195.
But Martin is right; it is C (in France). It must have been A prior to SERA (I found TK material from FTOs saying airspace above FL195 is class A), but the FR AIP does say it is C
New SERA.5005(d) from August 18th (reg 2016/1185):
VFR flights shall not be operated:
(1) at transonic and supersonic speeds unless authorised by the competent authority;
(2) above FL 195. Exceptions to this requirement are the following:
(i) an airspace reservation has been established, where practical, by the Member States, in which VFR
flights may be allowed; or
(ii) airspace up to and including flight level 285, when VFR traffic in that airspace has been authorised
by the responsible ATS unit in accordance with the authorisation procedures established by the
Member States and published in the relevant aeronautical information publication.
The exceptions (i) and (ii) are new compared to the “old” SERA.
Aviathor wrote:
Correction: Class A starts at FL195.
Are you sure? There is an EU reg according to which it’s supposed to be C and a cursory look at the French eAIP confirms it’s classified as C (ENR 1.4). PS: All the way up to FL660 where G starts as was written before.
Aviathor wrote:
In France a class D starts at FL115 into which VFR traffic is not admitted at least in the parts controlled by Paris. And IIRC a class A starts at FL285 which is RVSM airspace, but not quite sure about the class airspace
Correction: Class A starts at FL195.
The first is no VFR access for Class D, counter to worldwide convention
You are techically allowed to request a clearance into the airspace, which will be declined in some airpaces…
It’s like on some airports where entry into CTR D will be declied if a low-cost airline is on approach.
I guess the military flies VFR at any altitude.
Airspace above FL 195 used to be class A (in Denmark and perhaps other countries), but then 15 or 20 years ago it was changed to class C. VFR remained prohibited above FL 195, but I believe the reason behind the change of airspace classification from A to C could be relevant to this discussion. Unfortunately, I never found that reason.
Aviathor wrote:
In France a class D starts at FL115 into which VFR traffic is not admitted at least in the parts controlled by Paris.
How odd, on several levels. The first is no VFR access for Class D, counter to worldwide convention. The second is escalating versus diminishing airspace control with increasing altitude into mid levels. With the exception of Restricted airspace, once you’re above 10,000 in the US, all airspace is Class E until 18,000. That means between those altitudes you don’t need to be in contact with ATC at all, or IFR obviously, only (in general) squawking Mode C. Why would a country be motivated to do it backwards, relatively? Short distance CAT flights in the mid levels? France is not that small, even neglecting flights to nearby countries and further afield.
IFR is normally required above 18,000 in the US, to mix with the jets in Class A airspace that begins there. So my limited (dual) sailplane flying has ended at 17,975 ft. I guess you can get VFR clearance above that but I have no idea what that entails, due to lack of interest in my normal powered flight… Probably it takes a phone call.
