How bad can an instructor be? (a badly planned trip via the Balkans, and border crossing issues in Europe)

I’m not particularly interested in OCD persecution of an individual over a single incident, who cares what he did? I’m sure he and we can all take care of ourselves. The more interesting issue to me is the broader issue of how the over-complicated European system for light aircraft could feasibly be fixed to allow more people the pleasure of flying to more nice places… including people like the author who writes as a resident of Germany with an aircraft based in Germany.

I’ve made the point quite clearly that flying internationally within Europe, within areas where people otherwise travel without any knowledge or notification to any government, is exactly the same as moving between US states where people can move equally easily on the ground, but also in the air. Again, what reasonable problem would there be with eliminating the requirement for cross border flight plans and ATC contact in any area where people already move across international borders in cars and trucks without government interest or monitoring? I can only assume the resistance to that idea is cultural, and that resistance is interesting – because it indicates that the problem may never be solved, apparently due to irrational stubbornness.

BTW, the pilot who wrote the article apparently lives down the road from a guy I know. I asked my friend what he thought of him but they don’t know each other. I wouldn’t have posted anything along those lines anyway but it might of been interesting if my friend had a reaction. Obviously he didn’t have any reaction.

Silvaire wrote:

I can only assume the resistance to that idea is cultural, and that resistance is interesting – because it indicates that the problem may never be solved, apparently due to irrational stubbornness.

I don’t think anyone here is resisting the idea of doing away with compulsory flight plans intra-EU/Schengen. It’s just that there are much more important battles to fight. I might as well say that your objection to flight plans is an equally cultural, irrational stubbornness.

When I fly, I drive to my hangar, pull out the plane, get in, start up, and go. That’s what I like. Committing to an itinerary or unnecessarily discussing my flight with others beforehand or in real time would add no value and is pointless for doing what I’m doing. It would completely transform my activity into something different. There’s nothing irrational or cultural in it.

I think this issue is a major obstacle to increasing GA activity in Europe even if some of those who have self selected into the activity in its current form have their own view. That’s fine because obviously the end result, pretty or not, won’t likely change regardless, except when people like the UL community figure out how to evade nonsense as opposed to confronting it directly.

It appears to me that native european pilots tend to disagree. To me as a german, I‘d like to have the french airfield infrastructure, german hassle-free airspace structure and british …professionalism maybe, combined with american pragmatism and friendliness.
Flight plans really are a non-issue nowadays as the arguably best selling VFR-navigation software, Skydemon, does this with two clicks.

On a lighter note… At the risk of making M_D apoplectic and re “basic planning” a guy I know once needed to fly a French ex-military observer plane from the UK to a film set in Spain. After returning to base and fiddling with the radio multiple times unsuccessfully, it was getting late so he just flew there, or so the story goes, following rivers to navigate. The destination was not an airport, but he did stop for fuel once in France where they apparently thought an unexpected arrival by a Nord in Japanese markings was great In the end the plane was only featured for a very short shot in the movie but no harm was done. He apparently managed to avoid discussing the flight with too many interested parties.

Here’s an interview with some other guy that I selected at random. He’s got a pretty nice hangar that he built himself and some nice stuff to fly. Steve is about 2 meters tall and not easily dissuaded from getting things done.

Silvaire wrote:

When I fly, I drive to my hangar, pull out the plane, get in, start up, and go

Jesus Christ Silvaire !!!! That can be done anywhere in Europe, if you stick to one country as you do when flying in the US. The point here is international flights. Across country borders, outside any and all places where agreements even exists. Sorry to say, but you remind of completely ignorant young women going to Svalbard to experience “nature” only to become breakfast for polar bears We even have a name for that, but it will be too complicated, and no fun when trying to translate it to English.

The single only thing the US has, is it’s large. Trying to fly across it, yet alone land, and you are met with a wall of draconian regulations that would be better suited to the dark ages. That IS the truth about this case.

Flying in Europe could be easier, yes. No one disagrees. but it’s still infinitely simpler than flying in/out of the US. I can only speak for myself, but I can fill the tanks to the max, and fly in any direction I please until the tanks are empty, without anyone or anything preventing me (Russia excluded, but only because I don’t know how to speak Russian). I don’t know if you even are aware, but Norwegian interception of Russian bombers are this year at an all time high, higher than the top during the worst periods of the cold war. Russians are also repeatedly jamming GPS, rendering (at least civilian) GPS navigation useless. You should have read the NOTAM a couple of weeks ago. It included a warning about Russian firing of hot hot naval missiles just outside the coast here (the Russian “answer” to Norway hosting US Marines). Not even this prevents me from flying there, it’s exclusively the language barrier that stops such a journey*. I can do that in a microlight, a homebuilt or a ICAO C-172. Try to fly from Canada into the US, you will be shut down without the proper preparations up front.

* Not strictly correct, because my own government would be seriously angry if I did just for the fun of it, as the climate is right now. But the Russians wouldn’t care, they would certainly not shoot me down – as long as I spoke Russian.

I don’t know. It seems to me you are disconnected from reality somehow. One can only hope this is not representative for the average US citizen.

OK, one thing at a time @LeSving.

1) I’m discussing what can be in Europe to eliminate irrational obstacles to GA flying. I’m not directly comparing the US with Europe, except to mention that they have a lot in common, e.g. large geographic areas where people can otherwise travel without government awareness or control. PPR, yellow jackets, booking in/out, calling for startup, IFR ‘permit to fly’ restrictions, mandatory en route radio contact or flight plans are not features of US flying, and US flying is not the topic. They and the issues mentioned by others in this thread are features of European flying, which is the topic.

2) A number of countries in Europe require flight plans for domestic GA flights.

3) I think it is irrational for Germany, Holland, Belgium, France, Italy, Spain etc (you get the idea) to have border controls on light aircraft including mandatory flight plans and cross border radio contact. Nobody has disagreed.

4) Yes, its clear we’re talking about international flights. If I lived in Munich (where we own property), i.e. more or less central Europe, probably 75% of my day or weekend flying trips to interesting places would be international. Some would be to countries with which Germany has agreements eliminating many cross border hassles, most would not – I like Italy and have a lot of friends there. I have little interest in Scandinavian border issues with Russia, although FWIW there are some off-topic aviation related parallels with the situation between the US and Mexico.

5) Flying to Mexico and Canada from the US is not related to the topic of this thread. However, although there is no reason to discuss it in this thread, for your ongoing education many US GA airports on the borders have full time USCIS offices to handle cross border GA traffic. A friend of mine flew to Mexico and back in his Bonanza last weekend – he has a house down there and he uses the airplane to commute. Yes, it is similar to flying across fully controlled borders anywhere. Not a huge deal but not something I’d personally want to do all the time, anywhere. But this is nothing to do with the topic.

Have you flown outside of Europe @LeSving? I don’t recall you ever mentioning that you’d ever done so. Completely off topic, but you seem to have an interest in US flying for whatever reason, with limited knowledge. You’re welcome to come flying here any time, winter would be good. I agree that experience broadens and educates – I’ve traveled my whole life with that in mind. So far I’ve flown in the US and also UK, Italy and Germany during my twice yearly trips.

LeSving wrote:

Sorry to say, but you remind of completely ignorant young women going to Svalbard to experience “nature” only to become breakfast for polar bears

I stood at the site where one of those happened…. Up on the slopes above Longyear. I hear it happened again in 2011 when a camp was attacked. Normally, with the necessary precautions, this should not happen, the Sysselman of Svalbard has rules in force for that.

Silvaire wrote:

I think it is irrational for Germany, Holland, Belgium, France, Italy, Spain etc (you get the idea) to have border controls on light aircraft including mandatory flight plans and cross border radio contact. Nobody has disagreed.

As a matter of fact, all the countries you list are Schengen states so for most of those, you do need no border controls. France did an exception to that for a while after the Terror attacks in Paris. But you can fly from Austria to Germany to Belgium e.t.c. as long as it is Schengen without immigration or customs controls, as they are both in Schengen and the EU.

As for flight plans, like in the US every IFR flight needs a flight plan. Additionally, some airports require one and most countries require a plan for border crossing flights. What is the problem with that? As a matter of fact, filing an ATC flight plan will actually increase your safety by making sure someone will look for you if you disappear.

This guy flew in the pretty much only area of Europe which has states which are neither in Schengen nor the EU. That IS comparable to flying outside the US and back. If you feel that this can be done the way this guy did in Serbia, then you might tell us about it if there is internet in jail. I happen to know a lot of folks who have flown from here to the US and the preparations are beyond the expression you use for European travel.

YES, there are some countries which are different. But it is YOUR responsibility as a PIC of an airplane in international flight to know about them.

And yes I have flown in the US as well as been part of international airline operations into the US. Not many countries require more red tape of foreign air carriers than the US does, including requiring every crew member to have a US working Visum despite the fact that none of them ever works in the US. No other country I am aware of that we used to fly to requires this.

In this regard, the country in which this guy actually comitted a felony by landing on a non airport of entry, let alone a military base, exercised a lot more lenitence than what I would expect in the US, were I to land unannounced and out of sheer stupidity on an US Airfoce base instead of the very port of entry I have announced.