MedEwok wrote:
Why should GA be an exception?
Except for Greece, GA is no exception!
I would make that country list a bit longer; in fact considerably longer 
Most EU member countries joined the EU for the handouts (of course), with no interest in compromising their national security arrangements. The EU turned a blind eye and accepted them (of course).
This is reflected at various levels in Europe. It won’t change anytime soon.
Except for Greece, GA is no exception
Yes? Can I fly from Hannover to Venice Lido without any kind of border or customs control like I could if travelling by car or train?
From Germany to Italy you need a flight plan because you are crossing a border but you aren’t legally required to have a police (immigration) or customs check.
The reality is different though – particularly in Italy, according to many reports 
Peter wrote:
I would make that country list a bit longer; in fact considerably longerMost EU member countries joined the EU for the handouts (of course), with no interest in compromising their national security arrangements. The EU turned a blind eye and accepted them (of course).
MedEwok wasn’t talking about flight plans. He was talking about “customs or immigration issues”. Can you give an example of a country (except Greece) which is both in the EU and in Schengen and still requires customs and/or immigration for GA?
(In normal situations, not in actual or percieved emergencies when Schengen is wholly or partially suspended.)
The official answer is None, of course
Peter wrote:
From Germany to Italy you need a flight plan because you are crossing a border but you aren’t legally required to have a police (immigration) or customs check.The reality is different though – particularly in Italy, according to many reports
Yes, there have been previous discussions about ultralights in particular ignoring European (Schengen) international borders and behaving as though they were on the ground: no flight plan and no radio contact, not to mention non-ICAO-spec aircraft. And as one might judge by reading some of responses in this thread, there were those who took the ‘self appointed NCO’ social position and might send the lower caste cretins to jail for the rest of their lives. My point of view is their behavior is productive civil disobedience
@Mooney_Driver
I am not advocating not preparing for the flight, of course you need to properly prepare yourself, however having another set of eyes on your plan is always a good thing.
In the Balkans in general (former Yugoslavia countries, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania and Greece) VFR and IFR flight plans and flight itself are treated pretty much identically, with some extra limitations and questions from ATC in case you file a VFR plan, but not much difference. And yes, they do check your VFR plans and they do coordinate them same as they would do for the IFR ones.
As for the flight separation, again in the Balkans they do that for VFR as well since you can not legaly fly anywhere without beeing on a fligth plan and in contact with ATC.
MedEwok wrote:
Yes? Can I fly from Hannover to Venice Lido without any kind of border or customs control like I could if travelling by car or train?
Some mouth watering: Hannover –
Poland: nothing. No radio, really nothing, just fly there. If you cross controlled airspace: flight plan. no customs, no immigration
Netherlands, France, Tchechia, Italy, Austria: flight plan, no customs, no immigration
In reality, no radio contact whatsoever required if not at both airports although it is sensible to stay in contact with FIS. Don’t forget to close the flight plan once arrived.
That’s great and useful info re Germany to Poland. So much for historically based national security issues. The rest doesn’t IMO answer a lot of relevant questions: Are there in fact any publicly accessible airports in Germany that do not require radio contact with a Flugleiter? Does the airspace between Hannover and any of the countres mentioned allow practical routing completely in Class E or lower airspace with no radio or Mode S mandatory zones?
The flight plan issue is important even if (unlike me) you have no problem with mandatorily telling somebody everywhere you go for no particular legal reason, and telling them when you arrive or not. The importance is that once light aircraft don’t have to file flight plans, nobody in the real world is going to be able to restrict international ultralight movements – which I think would be beneficial to all concerned, not least the European light aircraft industry.
