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Advice for buying into a share

Thanks for the explanation Peter. In Germany there are indeed many clubs which have a relatively high membership fee but you get nice planes for that. My last club replaced its 2011 Aquila A210 trainer with a 2016 A211 model midway during my training. The older plane was still perfectly fine and had just above 1000 hrs TT. Membership fee was 360€/year and hourly price was 150€/h.

Of course this setup is less beneficial the more you fly: the more one flies the more important a low hourly rate becomes. Other clubs may recognise this to a degree and have a yearly fee of 1000€ or sometimes even higher in exchange for lower hourly rates.

The kind of non-equity group described by you is rare here AFAIK. Generally groups tend to be between two and four people, with four often viewed as the maximum feasible number of owners in German fora.

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

Non equity is renting and I reckon there is a wide variation in how many renters are around a particular plane. I have known of a number of private arrangements where there was just one renter, often long term (years). Usually the renter was posting on forums about “his” or “her” plane I had about 5-8 renters 2002-2006 (but not enough and got hit by the taxman big-time). By the time you get to syndicates of say 30 people (a lot of them here in the UK) the monthlies are very low, the share value is very low, especially around a wrecked C150, so it is quite close to a non-equity group. But is much cheaper than renting from a school because the school recovers a lot of overhead (fixed costs) on the hourly rate.

In the end, the aircraft owner has to cover his costs somehow.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I have already had indirect inquiries about people wanting to fly my Mooney, but as renters rather than shareholders. It’s kind of tempting. If I could find another reliable 50 hour a year pilot, that would ease the financial pressure of single pilot ownership but it would still be ‘mine’ in terms of getting upgrades now, availability etc.

EIMH, Ireland

Think about that one very well. I tried that model for years with my Piper Warrior – in the end i did not really save much but constantly had to repair damage done by the renters (scratched windows, smashed wingtips, dents, …. ,) It really was no great experience. If I did it again I’d make pictures of the plane before every new flight …

Yes, I’ve heard the horror stories of renting! That’s why I would like to limit it to just one person, about 50 hours and similar profile to myself.

EIMH, Ireland

The OP’s aircraft are EASA. Our’s is on a LAA Permit. Occasionally an aircraft can be U/S for some time. This is acceptable if you’ve got a lot of flying out of it. Tough on the latest group member. We’ve lost most of this year with a wing repair. Some work we do ourselves to keep cost down. The undercarriage is in my kitchen today.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

MedEwok wrote:

The kind of non-equity group described by you is rare here AFAIK. Generally groups tend to be between two and four people, with four often viewed as the maximum feasible number of owners in German fora.

You might also want to check with the statutes of the club. Non equity shares could be viewed as direct competition to the club chartering it’s planes. Let’s imagine. You could charter a club P28A for between 150 and 175 euros an hour wet (depending on whether glass cockpit or not) or charter an SR20 from a private owner for 200 euros. Which would you choose?

If your ‘mission’ is just cheap flying, for an hour in the air per month, then your choice would be the cheaper P28A. If you want to fly longer distance (+/-200 miles or more, each way) from A – B, then the SR20 would be your choice. The club knows this. They also know that the guy who flies regularly to get from A to B rather than spending an hour in the air each month will stop chartering the club planes and ‘subsidise’ the private owner of the SR20, given the option. So if you want to charter from an owner, some clubs state you need some equity in it.

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 03 Sep 09:25
EDL*, Germany

I’m non-UK, so no legal advice from me, but I am a member of 3 equity based syndicates and have tried 50% ownership. I agree that being just two owners has great benefits – just one telephone call, and any item is settled!
All of my three present syndicates have equal investment, equal monthly pay for fixed costs and an hourly rate. All three have quite different profiles in terms of both experience and hours flown yearly. That in itself has not been a problem. It is more about being open about things, honest and forgiving.
In one of the syndicates, we are 6 owners. Additionally we have 6 associated pilots, each paying 1,67 times the owner’s hourly rate an hour, and each paying for ½ an hour each month as a fixed amount. They still have access to the aircraft at a great price, but can quit anytime they like. They are motivated to stay at least barely current on the aircraft as they will pay for at least ½ x 12 = 6 hours of flying each year even if they never fly it. (It is not a particularly complex aeroplane.) It works fine and we even have a waiting list for pilots wanting to join as an associated pilot. This is great because it allows the owner’s group to handpick the users. Also, whenever an owner share comes up for sale, the associated pilots are in the front line, as we owners already know them, and they know us and the airplane. I joined the group that way 11 years ago, and most new part-owners have since. This is a EUR 80.000 aircraft, and even with 12 users it only flies around 150 hrs a year. We can adjust the number of associated users to regulate hours flown and accessibility.
Booking is unrestricted in one group, has an approval routine for long bookings in another group, while in the third group there is a running weekly calendar so that each owner owns the aircraft one in every six weeks, and everyone else wanting to use it in his week has to ask him. Has turned out to be a surprisingly successful arrangement.
In all three syndicates we meet at least twice a year – some of us much more often. I think that is essential, or at least a great advantage for the stability of the group. Personally I communicate with co-owners in all 3 groups several times each week.

Last Edited by huv at 03 Sep 10:25
huv
EKRK, Denmark

My co owner and I, we sometimes rent out the Beech. But only in a package together with a trusted pilot /FI who knows the plane and also loves it. No charter without pilot, whose rate comes on top. If then someone still wants to fly the plane, fine, it helps with the fixed cost. We only do it via word of mouth.

Last Edited by EuroFlyer at 03 Sep 10:33
Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

As someone who has done all three (club and owner on fixed-wing, zero equity on rotary), advantages / disadvantages of clubs go pretty much like:

Advantages

  • Generally lower subscription cost
  • Usually has some sort of availability of examiners who you get to know etc
  • Larger fleet of available aircraft

Disadvantages

  • They love superfluous ‘check rides’ for which you pay a nice fee to an instructor for a ‘cross channel check-out’ or whatever
  • They will rent to anyone, and often use the aircraft for basic PPL training. So you have no idea who has used the things and what they have done with it. This is a big problem with rotary in particular – insurance excesses are high so people don’t tell you about hard landings, overspeeds etc
  • Maybe a gross generalisation, but you seem to get more aviation bores hanging around clubs
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Oxford EGTK
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