Mazda gasoline IC engine (compression ignition)

Aren’t the current Mercedes and Ferrari F1 engines compression-ignition gasoline engines? I thought even this season’s redesigned (but still under-powered) Honda engine had adopted this technology. Http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/f1-s-power-secret
Perhaps Mazda are a bit late to the party or just the first to announce this in a road-car application.

The Mazda press-release does not say much, but the video of the press conference does.
Their is still a spark plug to control the ignition, but not for the bulk of the ignition.
HCCI is interesting in any engine because it has a high fuel efficiency and produce very little pollutant emissions.

Several articles about this now. One in the local press here where the reporter mentioned he had a ride with a VW test vehicle in 2007. It had the exact same engine principle. Compression ignition in the mid range, and spark in the “edges” (low and high power). On board was a PC showing when the the engine ran in the different “modes”, but when running in CI “mode”, this could also be heard, as the engine got a special “metallic” tone (whatever that means).

wigglyamp wrote:

Perhaps Mazda are a bit late to the party or just the first to announce this in a road-car application.

Interesting article. Looks like Mercedes has perfected this 100% already (in the F1 engine at least). It looks like this really is the shape of future engines? But then again, you can put an awful lot of super expensive technology in an F1 engine, without that being economically or practically feasible in a production road vehicle.

I don’t think it is of particular interest to aviation. The main goal of HCCI is to increase efficiency while reducing the emission of polluting substances. The increased efficiency is that over current gasoline engines. Compared to diesel engines, the efficiency is not increased significantly (HCCI can be applied to gasoline and diesel fuels although the latter is much harder).

What aviation needs is widespread adoption of diesel engine technology to burn the only fuel that is available everywhere and to get rid of the 1940s low-tech stuff. Better gasoline engines are of very limited interest and certainly many years after wide adoption by the car industry.

LeSving wrote:

On board was a PC showing when the the engine ran in the different “modes”, but when running in CI “mode”, this could also be heard, as the engine got a special “metallic” tone (whatever that means).

I’d imagine ‘metallic tone’ would mean Diesel rattle.

LeSving wrote:

But then again, you can put an awful lot of super expensive technology in an F1 engine, without that being economically or practically feasible in a production road vehicle.

Obviously that holds true in many things, not just F1 and car engines. In the real world the market figures it out, regardless of what effete sports and R&D departments may do with their budgets. As long as Mazda and others are doing research with their own money and meanwhile selling what people want to buy, within largely undistorted market forces, good luck to them.

achimha wrote:

What aviation needs is widespread adoption of diesel engine technology to burn the only fuel that is available everywhere and to get rid of the 1940s low-tech stuff. Better gasoline engines are of very limited interest and certainly many years after wide adoption by the car industry.

I don’t understand the logic if this:

• Gasoline (mogas) is available anywhere. Aircraft engines could run on mogas as long as aircraft have existed. Most existing aircraft engines runs perfectly well on mogas. No development or fancy tech is needed.
• Distributing mogas from the nearest gas station to the airport cost nothing.
• Distributing AVGAS is cheap and involves no development of anything.
• The diesel engine for cars is dead. There will be no more diesels. Electric and presumably this HCCI ? will take over. (If Mazda makes a viable product now, this is the final nail in the coffin for diesel engined cars for all foreseeable future). EL and mogas is the future no matter how you look at it.
• Cheap diesel/jet in favor cheap mogas is purely a political “thing”. It could change any minute.
• All diesel aircraft engines so far has only proven one single thing: They are way too expensive to compete.
• Commercial GA don’t want piston engines, turbines rules, and they will always do.
• Private GA is increasingly more non-certified for each day. We have lots of engines in that segment, most if not all, have FADEC (in that segment it doesn’t really matter anyway, it’s more a matter of taste and size of wallet)

Gasoline (mogas) is available anywhere.

De facto availability at smaller airfields is Avgas > Jet A > Mogas. At larger airfields it is Jet A > Avgas > Mogas.

Distributing mogas from the nearest gas station to the airport cost nothing.

My typical refuelling is 300-400 litres. How do I get that from my nearest gas station for free?

Can’t bother with the rest.

Cobalt wrote:

Can’t bother with the rest.

Ditto.

Cobalt wrote:

My typical refuelling is 300-400 litres. How do I get that from my nearest gas station for free?

LOL So it is easier for you to build your own engine running on Jet A1 ? It’s not “you” that is going to bring mogas from the gas station, and it’s not “you” that is going to build your own engine.

An IO360 costs $30k, a CD-155 is $120k. The difference is $90k. What can you get for $90k? For one, you can ship tons and tons of avgas around the world several times for that. You can arrange permanent solution for avgas/mogas at least on 10 airfields for those 90k (here in Europe, maybe 20-30 in third world countries). Semi permanent solutions at 20, maybe 50 airports (in Europe, at least twice as much in a third world country). This is the difference in price for one single engine alone.

Fuel distribution (and storage) is cheap and simple, it can be done by anyone, anywhere. Engine development is anything but cheap and simple. That’s the reality. I prefer to stick to reality.

Can this be back on topic of the Mazda engine please, otherwise I will merge about 20 “diesel” threads into one massive one.