Peter wrote:
It will be interesting what market this engine’s maker goes after.
I suppose they will try to get OEM installations by manufacturers and additional to that offer STC’s for existing airplanes. The only thing that really makes sense.
When Thielert did this with their original engine, quite a few STC’s were sold to owners of PA28 and C172 as well as Robins I think. Had Thielert not gone bust with all the adverse consequences (which had preciously little to do with the actual engine but simply with gross mismanagement), that trend would have continued. As it came, people got burned and as a consequence still there is a resentment towards this engine which by todays facts (owned by Continental) is simply no longer relevant. But it takes very little to ruin a reputation and is sometimes almost impossible to get the confidence back.
In the beginning of the aera I had the opportunity to fly a converted PA28. In comparison to our engines, the operation of the Diesel is a different world and one I like MUCH better than the way we have to every time coax our engines to life and afterwards attend expensive seminars to learn how to fly them properly…
Does anyone expect some legacy piston twins will receive STC?
My guess, based on the sort of thing some firms have said on this topic in years past, is that anyone doing this will look at the fleet size being over 1k. Can anyone post a likely table?
Socata TB20/TB21: ?? (I could count them from here)
There are much bigger fleets out there, in the USA. Bonanzas and Mooneys? You have to go for types which are actually flown a lot. So it has to be the US market.
Peter wrote:
You have to go for types which are actually flown a lot. So it has to be the US market.
Not necessarily, especially as Avgas avail is no issue in the US. I’ve said that in another thread (and I know I start to sound like a broken record – remember these ? 
), but IMHO the main fleet for this diesel conversion is the Cessna 200 series, airplanes that fly in significant numbers globally in commercial GA roles and often in situations where a turbine doesn’t make economic sense.
achimha wrote:
That argument is misleading on two accounts. First of all, current diesel engines do not emit particles in relevant quantities (EU 6). The fact that old engines do is not a valid argument against current engines. Second the world would be entirely different if all those cars were burning lead. So you are wrong — lead is the really bad stuff. The big mistake by regulators was to base exhaust criteria on artificial test stands with warmed up engines, etc. This is now being changed to RDE (real driving emissions) and the newest generation of diesels already meet the upcoming RDE standards.
The problem as I understand it from various media is that the particle filter does not work properly before the engine has reached working temperature. That will practically never happen in the cities when the outside temperature is subzero. The cabin heat is on max, the car is running on idle most of the time, the low temperature itself make the thermal efficiency go up, less heat is produced. It’s a bad circle actually. If you can point me to some references that say this is not true that would be fine.
Running on the road at 100+ km/h, no problem.
Not to mention all those people removing their particle filter because they couldn’t be bothered. And of course the car inspections not having the legal means to redflag such cars. At least in Belgium…
As I’ve posted before, long before the current particulates scandal, you ’haven’t lived’ until you’ve followed a passing Diesel on a motorcycle and breathed the vortex of smoke as he punches it to accelerate and then holds his foot on the floor as you ride along in trail. I enjoy my time in Europe very much regardless, but Diesel engine smoke is the most unpleasant thing about it, for me personally.
I’m happy that Diesel engines aren’t as much of a problem on the roads for me in the US for two reasons (1) there aren’t many Diesel cars and a lot of them, possibly most of them, are currently being collected and scrapped (2) there isn’t the same density of Diesel trucks on motorways due to the higher use of trains for freight.
@172driver, I could see the ‘Cessna 206 in the third world’ market, but obviously it has to be in a place where hours per month is high and where the price of Avgas is truly ridiculous due to supply chain or tax issues and/or availability is close to nil.
LeSving wrote:
The problem as I understand it from various media is that the particle filter does not work properly before the engine has reached working temperature.
A problem of older engines, not Euro 6. There are now mechanisms to ensure the catalytic converter and the filter are always at operating temperature.
Silvaire wrote:
As I’ve posted before, long before the current particulates scandal, you ’haven’t lived’ until you’ve followed a passing diesel on a motorcycle and breathed the smoke as he punches it to accelerate and holds his foot on the floor as you ride along in trail.
A nice anecdote but does not apply to current engines. The particle emissions of a Euro 5 or 6 diesel are at the same level as gasoline engines. The particle emissions is not the current subject of discussion, it is the NOx emission which is increased by particle filters. This problem is finally addressed by the current Euro 6 engines through the use of an urea additive in sufficient quantity.
A shame that the whole “clean diesel” initiative was launched with engines that were not ready for it and relied on cheating software but the current engines are way past all of this. There is simply no alternative to modern diesel engines for large cars other than an electric drive train in the mid term future.
I’ve seen no change over the years, despite the hype that has come along with every new generation of Diesel regulation. Black smoke under acceleration, blowing directly in my face, has not gone away. I’ll believe the results when I see them, but suspect the volume of Diesel cars may now fade to nothing so it will become irrelevant.
Very few large cars in the US are, or ever will be, Diesel powered. For that I am glad.
Silvaire wrote:
I could see the ‘Cessna 206 in the third world’ market, but obviously it has to be in a place where the price of Avgas is truly ridiculous due to supply chain or tax issues and/or availability is close to nil.
Which is the case in most of the ‘Third World’. Btw, you run into Avgas avail issues much closer to home than many people realize.
