Depository for off topic / political posts (NO brexit related posts please)

AdamFrisch wrote:

Everyone wins if you ask me. Tesla will bring everyone kicking and screaming into the electric world, whether they like it or not.

I didn’t win… I helped buy those Teslas (they are paid for partly with tax revenues) and I’d be perfectly happy to be left out of making my contribution I find the roughly 1,000,000 Buicks sold in China last year to be more interesting as an American, but I wouldn’t buy one of those either. Given my choice I’d never buy another new car of any kind and certainly not one that will cost me more now, only to throw it away in ten years.

Silvaire wrote:

only to throw it away in ten years.

I don’t like that either. However, I very much like giving it back to the dealer after 3 years (current one only 2) in exchange for the then latest model. Burns a bit of money but I feel I get something exciting every time. There is a lot stuff happening in (electric) cars, always a pleasure to get my hands on the latest. And how I am longing for the first real self driving one — I’d pay any price for that!

I just bought an XC90 as I have family and wanted a SUV. The Tesla X was too expensive (and I don’t like the styling of it). But one of the key factors for me was that Volvo has pledged to be all hybrid and all electric by 2019 model year. That’s important to me – I want to spend my money with a company that shares my view of the future and isn’t afraid of change. I’m a little sad I couldn’t afford the hybrid version of the XC90 (it’s $20K more expensive), but I’m confident this will be my last dinosaur-engined car ever purchased. Another factor was simply that I think Volvo has done great job with the design of their latest vehicles. They’ve always tried to be a premium brand, but never really succeeded until now, in my opinion.

I’ve been driving all electric cars for several years (who else here has?).

My wife and me.. Like you, happy i3 owners for a few years now, charged by our own solar panels. For quite a while we were the owners of 50% of the entire fleet of the island Btw, no battery loss yet, 65k kilometers on the oldest one. Same for you?

I disagree on your stand re Musk. He has proven do be be able to build a business in the past. The fact that that he’s burning other people’s money on Tesla is fine with me. He’s creating and finally getting the German powerhouses to get their act together. Plus of course pioneering other good stuff in alternative energy and (space) transportation.

achimha wrote:

and >100k people make a deposit on a non existing car because they think it delivers salvation.

Business today isn’t based on concrete value. It is based on hype and hope. Tesla offers hype and hope in spades.
Visit California, and you’ll find that most of the world’s largest businesses (tech) don’t care about profitability. It is all about scalability.
In the case of Tesla, they are aiming for massive growth, so are reinvesting 100% of everything back into the company. They’re selling hope as an accessory, but the cars themselves are full-value specimens.
Auto-pilot is killing it in the US via over-the-air-updates.

AdamFrisch wrote:

Tesla will bring everyone kicking and screaming into the electric world, whether they like it or not.

They are indeed!
They’re also about to kill Uber and a few trucking companies as well…

achimha wrote:

PS: The Chevrolet Bolt is more innovative than the Tesla in my view. Unfortunately GM is missing the big mouth marketeer?

Sorry achimha, but only true in Europe. Part of the innovation of Tesla is the charging network and the total package. The Tesla offering is a complete package along with auto-pilot, etc. that Chevy just doesn’t offer.
Spice it with hype and hope, and you have a winner in the US (and the world will follow…)

Mooney Tail: winner. She’s a beaut, and there is something sentimental about that design style. Without that tail, it just isn’t a Mooney. They’d might as well call it something else, b/c it doesn’t have the steel spar or frame…

When we close the books on automotive history, there’s no doubt that Elon and Tesla will have a prominent part. We have them to thank for ushering in the new era. Ground transportation started electrifying in earnest because of Tesla. There’s a clear delineation in time before Tesla and after.

AdamFrisch wrote:

Achima – I’ve noticed it’s a very German thing to hate on Elon Musk and Tesla. Maybe because he’s killing the German top end market completely and it hits at the core of German self image – used to being top dog in cars and not questioned about it (his cars outsell all the German luxury manufacturers cars combined here in the US). Now, for the first time in decades, they’ll actually have to compete and innovate again, something they’ve not really had to do. Everyone wins if you ask me. Tesla will bring everyone kicking and screaming into the electric world, whether they like it or not.

I have a Tesla, and our company supplies parts for Model S. I doubt anyone wants them to succeed more than me.
But let’s be real, Tesla is not “killing the German top end market completely”.

Next year Audi will have the eTron and Jaguar the IPace. There are lots of other new models in the pipeline, the big German boys are just getting going and they have the resources and skills to make good cars in big volume.

I am looking forward to a drive in a Porsche Mission E.

@Neil
Of course the German car manufacturers will bring great electric product to the market, but they would never have done so had not Tesla forced their hand. Only going back a few years, after the initial E-Tron, Audi said they weren’t going to build electric cars as it didn’t “make sense”. Cut to now and they’re all scrambling like crazy to get one on the market. Which they will of course. Ironically, they’ll all eventually have to buy their batteries from Tesla most likely, as they will be the biggest producer in the world.

Perhaps more egregious is the world’s largest manufacturer, Toyota, who schizophrenically and despite being the biggest hybrid manufacturer in the world, decides that “pure electric has no future” and releases the fuel cell powered Mirai. This car is not only ugly as hell, but worse, it’s a monumental flop. It’s got to go down as one of the worst corporate decisions ever made. Does Toyota really believe that a hydrogen fuel cell network yet to be built and hydrogen cars are the future? Ushering us from a carbon dependence onto another fuel dependence? It’s mind boggling to think someone thought this was a viable idea, when the infrastructure for electric is already built, paid for and everywhere.

AdamFrisch wrote:

Ironically, they’ll all eventually have to buy their batteries from Tesla most likely, as they will be the biggest producer in the world.

The Asian battery makers are far larger than Tesla today and even larger than Tesla in Elon Musks’s wet dreams. Tesla has always relied on conventional, universally available battery chemistry.

AdamFrisch wrote:

Does Toyota really believe that a hydrogen fuel cell network yet to be built and hydrogen cars are the future? Ushering us from a carbon dependence onto another fuel dependence? It’s mind boggling to think someone thought this was a viable idea

Other minds — possibly not as brilliant as yours — think otherwise.

So why again did you buy a very traditional car and one that has one of the highest CO2 emissions of all cars available today? Maybe the big car makers did not push too many electric vehicles to the market precisely because people don’t end up buying them even though they post big words on forums about such cars? Tesla occupied a niche and has been running on government and investor money for a very long time with unknown outcome. BMW has also moved very early in a niche with a highly unconventional hi-tech car made from carbon fiber and it has attracted a certain clientele like myself — because I have disposable income and love modern technology. Advanced in lithium battery technology in the last 5 years has far surpassed expectation which is why now a lot of carmakers will start offering more mainstream EVs.

With the amazing progress in chemical battery technology and the faster than expected decline in cost per kWh, we can expect to see useable electric flying vehicles (I don’t say airplanes) rather soon. This will be exciting.