As does WWII being a European civil war. I’m not sure the Chinese would see it that way.
Silvaire wrote:
…and were all doing very well under the Lira.
No, they were not – as I listed in my posting above. They all went bankrupt (for the first or Xth time) at least 10 years before the Euro was invented. Actually they never did really well, financially. And never will, the market is too small and decreasing. Because, as I already wrote, motorcycles are a grandfather thing and grandfathers don’t buy new stuff every other year.
Ten years before the Euro was invented was when the resurgence of the Italian motorcycle industry started, early 90s as I’ve explained. What happened leading up to that I know very well, but it’s not what I’m talking about, is it? Starting in about 1991 they had a boom, with the exception of poor Moto Guzzi which didn’t have any cash under the DeTomaso family and had to be rescued by Aprilia, which was flush with cash at that time. Same for Morini under the founder’s daughter, rescued for a time by Cagiva. The real players meanwhile were going crazy… Ducati sales boomed in the US during the 90s, with total production increasing from about 3,000 to about 65,000 annually including all plants, exceeding BMW at that time, Aprilia designed an entire range of bikes up to 1000 cc and expanded from scooters to being a strong Ducati competitor. Cagiva then sold Ducati, used the money to buy MV, then designed from the ground up and introduced some of the best bikes ever made, in 1998 – still the basis of their current product line. This is not failure 
Since Italian adopted the Euro, Ducati has been bought by VW and sales are now at 55,000 in one plant, rehashing 20 year old concepts. Aprilia and Guzzi were bought by Piaggio which had only one virtue (cash on hand) and it has resulted in total stagnation, while Cagiva/MV has bounced from one foreign (Malaysian, American, German) owner to the next. This is not what they had, or what they’d like regardless of their PR spin.
LeSving wrote:
In my head the UK is a place where everybody grows vegetables and sell to each other, plus one and the other bed & breakfast.
Add to that impressive list, coffee shops. Costa to go is the latest. Coffee shops at the side of motorways, with a drive thru. All selling crap coffee, and piss poor samwiches.
I may be getting old, but coffee to go, whilst attempting to drive your car? Seriously.
Glasgow city centre is now one huge coffee/sandwich/burger joint. Everywhere I look, thousands of them, going bust every six months when the business rates council catches up with them, quick name change, and off we go again. The whole country is attempting to eat itself to an early death…
Fenland_Flyer wrote:
Would you care to revise that statement as it does seem just a tad far fetched!
Of course it is impossible to know how history would have played out without the influence of the EU and its ancestral organisations. But looking into any book on European history, it becomes clear that a period of seven decades of peace within the territory of the EU is unprecedented.
Silvaire wrote:
As does WWII being a European civil war. I’m not sure the Chinese would see it that way.
But please let’s refrain from discussing WWII because that is a surefire way to completely derail ANY discussion on the internet. Let’s stick to current politics, which are contentious enough.
it becomes clear that a period of seven decades of peace within the territory of the EU is unprecedented.
There is a bigger reason for that.
But please let’s refrain from discussing WWII because that is a surefire way to completely derail ANY discussion on the internet
In Germany, for sure 
And doubtless in a few other places too. But WW2 is a part of modern history. It pretty well shaped the post-WW2 world we live in. That additional sensitivity is however an extra dimension in the running of a forum…. the explosions over “free speech” with particular individuals. This is why forums in Germany have to be marketed as “unmoderated” (but of course are moderated, covertly).
The whole country is attempting to eat itself to an early death…
Well I did try to do my bit for that here and here but nobody listens…
The areas of Scotland which rejected the SNP were likely to be more in favour of leaving the EU than against leaving the UK.
Conservatives – leave EU, stay in UK. SNP – stay in EU, leave UK.
Scotland lost its fishing grounds when Heath took us into the EU. Fortunately the oil industry took up the workers.
If Brexit deal doesn’t recover the fish, the next election will be interesting.
And the Scottish Parliament election may not follow the UK election pattern.
One day you will get over it, Peter, that i made a silly remark about “free speach” in 2013 ;-)
Yes, MedEwok, i think like you, it’s an incredible success that we have a period of peace for such a long time. This is by far the biggest success of all “Paneuropean” ideas. For our children we should everything we can to preserve peace, freedom – and humanity.
ThMaoraigh wrote:
The areas of Scotland which rejected the SNP were likely to be more in favour of leaving the EU than against leaving the UK
That was shown in Indy ref 1, where areas one would have thought certain to vote for independence, did not. tHe Western Isles for instance. I am convinced that was because no Scots live there any longer. The difficulty in tactical voting, or voting due to some previous misadventure, is that it does nothing for the current situation, and future issues. My point earlier in this thread, was precisely that. A lack of knowledge, or a vote based on I do not like Ted Heath, or Margaret Thatcher, in 2017, is useless. We had more of a fight with Iceland, than we ever did with Europe, over fishing, and the territories.
Cod Wars again?
Scotland, exports 90% of its shellfish catch to Spain. Scotland exports almost 88% of its total fish catch to Europe. The stocks are now depleted due to overfishing, therefore it will be decades to bring it back, if ever. What is the prize of leaving the EU, a 12 mile zone, and multiple Coastguard Protection vessels, costing millions to patrol.
Oh, and the 12 mile zone never stopped them. Icelandic, Spanish, Portugese, Danish and Norwegian vessels continually breached zones, even when in Europe….
what_next wrote:
And here is a short interview with Giovanni Castiglioni, the current president of Cagiva. He went to the same school as I did (many years after me though) and blames the difficulties of his company on everything but not the Euro. And he never would (like myself), because we were both educated the same way: http://www.cycleworld.com/mv-agusta-giovanni-castiglioni-interview-on-the-record
But for an Italian manfuacturer, the Euro has killed their profitability. He may not blame the Euro due to political correctness but for those in Southern Europe the currency fixed to Germany has been a disaster and prevented them from adjusting to their economic problems. Compare Greece which is still a disaster to Iceland.
