I travel to Switzerland on a regular basis.
There are customs checks only. The only personal document they want to see is the ‘Arbeitsbewilligung’ (work permit)
A plane would not handled different to a car:
Sorry this is in German:
Swiss media about custom fee for cars in Austria
This is one case where a German pensioner was stopped with a car from his son, who lives in Switzerland.
A few years back there was a case where a young lady drove the car of her boyfriend to Austria and got busted too. If they were engaged, it would be ok. Rental cars are ok too (up to 6 months)…..
@Shorrick
Do as you please. So do I.
I learnt from French speaking commercial pilots frequently going there for years and have been happy with that since.
Peter wrote:
To me, a customs check is for all practical purposes a check on the person also. Politically (especially “mainland Europe politically”) and emotionally there is a difference, probably. Those watching you are probably behind a one-way mirror (at most big airports).
I think the reason why this causes confusion with UK citizens is the fact that these two entirely unrelated concepts happen to be enforced by the same personnel in the UK and maybe in some other countries, too. But just because a person is asked to perform two tasks, doesn’t create any further relationship between those tasks. They are really historically and conceptually unrelated.
Checking customs (i.e. goods) is done for economic reasons. Probably even happened before passports existed in the first place? The customs union in Europe removes this requirement to pay customs for goods movements within member states.
Checking people isn’t an economic measure in the first place (well, of course you limit access to the country via visa requirements for certain countries because you don’t want to flood the economy with cheap labor or whatever) but for political reasons. One checks if the person is allowed to enter in the first place (visa, sanctions, criminal record, whatever). Again, members of Schengen trust each other enough (or used to…) to allow people from one member state to roam freely within the other member states. Great thing, no relation to the customs union.
Many countries (not nearly enough) are members of both the customs union and Schengen. (Btw, as a side note: There is provisions within the Schengen agreement that allow checking people at the border, so no… Schengen has not been “suspended” anywhere at all). Some countries are only a member of Schengen but do not take part in the customs union (e.g. Switzerland). Other countries are only a member of the customs union but not Schengen (e.g. the UK for the time-being).
chflyer wrote:
A good example is the Zurich airport, where there is no passport control for passengers to/from other Schengen countries like France, Germany, etc. […] However, ALL arriving passengers (i.e. exiting the airport into Switzerland) need to pass through the common Green/Red decision paths, regardless of flight originating country. This is the customs control.
Another good example is Heathrow airport, where there is passport control for arriving passengers from (but not leaving to) the Schengen area, but there is no customs check. In fact, next to the Green/Red decision paths, there is a blue one labelled “Passengers arriving from the EU” or something along those lines. Note that at Heathrow, customs and immigration are not done by the same people either (maybe by the same agency, I’m not sure).
I really wonder why the concept of Customs and Immigration being two entirely unrelated issues is so difficult to grasp for some people.
We’ve explained it countless times and still there is discussions and questions. Why I wonder.
Unfortunately it is a fact that Schengen is a very useless thing for GA in Switzerland and other non-EU Schengen places, as Customs is the powerful agency who is very clear on the fact that they do not want any movement between two countries without them being on it. Schengen sort of works at the car borders and for airline passengers, it is totally useless for GA, as the customs requirement overrules it.
So the rule is simple.
- ANY flight from and to Switzerland needs to enter / leave Switzerland from an Airport of Entry on principle. AoE’s in Switzerland are LSZH, LSZR, LSZG, LSZS, LSGG, LSGS, LSZA, LSZB and LSGC. There are some (Lausanne for example) which allow immigration with PPR.
- ANY flight from and to Switzerland out of the Schengen zone needs an airport offering CUSTOMS facilities. Many airports do, not all. Most airfields have PPR for that.
Geneva and Basle (LFSB, so a French airport by all rights but with a Swiss zone) offer both French and Swiss Customs AND Immigration.
- ANY flight landing in a country outside Switzerland out of Switzerland needs CUSTOMS. NO exception EVER.
- Flights out of Switzerland to outside Schengen needs Immigration as well at the arrival port.
Those of you who do not seem to grasp this concept will do best to choose full airports of entry for all ops. Saves a lot of hassle if you get it wrong. Customs are not folks to dick around with, they can and do issue MASSIVE fines up to confiscation of airplanes e.t.c. No wonder they were even shunned in the Bible already. Not much has changed since.
I really wonder why the concept of Customs and Immigration being two entirely unrelated issues is so difficult to grasp for some people.
Any topic which generates 33 posts in less than 2 days, and gets a pilot fined €1200 for getting it wrong, is evidently non-trivial.
Also, in international aviation terminology, the word “Customs” means Customs+Immigration. Very few countries separate the two. I started a thread on this here but it remained largely inconclusive. Anyway, the separation seems to exist only within parts of Europe.
This
is anything but simple, but at least here we have it set out clearly.
Peter wrote:
Also, in international aviation terminology, the word “Customs” means Customs+Immigration.
What is your source for this?
Very few countries separate the two.
Almost all countries that I have visited (including USA, Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom) operate separate checks (checkpoints), even if the same agency does both. In every country on the European mainland that I know of they are two entirely different agencies and it has been so for ages.
is anything but simple, but at least here we have it set out clearly.
It is simple once you understand that customs is not immigration and Schengen=immigration zone, EU=customs zone.
Added an analogy:
If you see that an airport offers fuel, you very much know that you have to check if it’s AvGas / Jet A / Mogas because having one does not necessarily mean that the other is available also. The situation is the same for immigration and customs.
What is your source for this?
Check any database used by professionals e.g. Jeppesen.
Almost all countries that I have visited (including USA, Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom) operate separate checks (checkpoints), even if the same agency does both
Yes, the two concepts are separate words in English and other languages, but the Q was whether you get one or the other but not both services provided at any particular airport. That is fairly unusual and doesn’t seem to exist outside Europe.
Peter wrote:
Check any database used by professionals e.g. Jeppesen.
Than those databases contain insufficient details. As per my above post, it’s like saying that fuel is available, but not specifying which type.
Yes, but the Q was whether you get one or the other but not both at any particular airport.
And the obvious answer is that in many case either one or the other is available. Or if you want to open a temporary port of entry (possible in Hungary – and I guess many other countries as well – for any airfield), you have to call (and pay for) immigration and customs checks separately, as appropriate for your destination.
That is fairly unusual and doesn’t seem to exist outside Europe.
Because present day Europe hosts the world’s only large scale immigration and customs unions, with mostly overlapping, but slightly different memberships.
And I’d understand your point if non-European pilots were posting on this forum about getting fined, but apparently it’s the locals who can’t grasp the situation.
Peter wrote:
Also, in international aviation terminology, the word “Customs” means Customs+Immigration
That simple word is not enough information. There are many airfields and other places which indeed have a customs office but no immigration. The expression you are looking for here is “Airport of Entry”. This definitly implies both.
In Europe’s screwed up aviaiton infrastructure, we keep sending mails about fuel, charges e.t.c. but apparently not about their Airport of Entry status? For me, that is one of the most vital things to ask.
It is a not very fortunate situation that there are so many different contractual situations in terms with the EU, membership, customs union and Schengen all having different significance. It would have been much easier if the EU had not extended Schengen to non Members for a start or not agree to contracts which don’t extend to all EU members. But that is not what the case is therefore whoever wants to fly in this mess needs to know. Well, for you Brits, it will get easier anyhow, starting in 2 years or so you will need both customs and immigration everywhere when flying from and to the UK, so from that moment on Airport of Entry is definitly the operative word.
I wish @FlyingFish would elaborate on
He has in another post stated that he would base his Extra 400 at LSGG because it is a Port of Entry, but I believe part of the rationale was also that there is French customs/immigration on the field (that’s at least how I interpreted it). In that case he could have gone through French customs/immigration at LSGG prior to the flight to LFEY, and in that case wouldn’t that have been fine? (no pun intended)
