Mooney_Driver wrote:
But then again, prices of new GA planes are one of the biggest problems we have indeed, totally unjustified and simply crazy.
I agree wholeheartedly. If modern manufacturing methods as in the car industry were used for the production of GA airplanes, their factory price would probably drop to the same level as that of mid-range cars. I severly doubt that material-wise GA airplanes are more difficult to manufacture (and hence more expensive) than modern cars.
But of course economy of scale would be required to use the same methods as in the car industry, and that would mean selling hundreds if not thousands of planes in a day and not in a decade…
Yes, the dominant cost is labor, not materials, driven by low production volume and the need for high structural efficiency.
If modern manufacturing methods as in the car industry were used for the production of GA airplanes
That’s irrealistic, the volumes are perhaps a thousand times smaller so those big investments could never be made good. OTOH the cost of development and certification and continued support must be paid from a much smaller volume sold which must weigh in heavily.
And yes, material-wise aeroplanes, or at least state-of-the-art aeroplanes, are a lot more difficult to produce than cars. Producing a car body and chassis-cum-bottomplate is a matter of pressing some steel sheet into the appropriate forms then welding them together. No aeroplanes are built that way and there’s a reason for that.
Peter,
where on earth is this airplane graveyard?
Oh, btw, there might be at least 2 airplanes which could source a prop (and maybe engine?) for Ian?
But you find wrecks in other places in Spain e.g. Granada where parking used to be so cheap (a few € per month) that people just left old planes there. Not cheap any more though so I don’t know if that still goes on. But Spain seems to have a lot of abandoned planes for some reason.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Could we refrain from political statements, please?
Isn’t this whole discussion really about politics? Or you could say that politics is largely about the sentiments expressed in this discussion.
Timothy wrote:
Or you could say that politics is largely about the sentiments expressed in this discussion.
In a sense, maybe. But to say that a less desirable human emotion such as envy is the “basis” for socialism – or for that matter saying that greed is the “basis” for capitalism – is oversimplifying to the point of meaninglessness. It becomes empty political slogans.
Having come from Czechoslovakia I would say that envy is the principal driver behind communism. I don’t think anybody can dispute that. The entire left wing doctrine is based on stripping down the rich.
Also we cannot escape politics when discussing e.g. airport funding, airspace charges, ATC, the “need” for 8.33, etc. Practically everything to do with the way GA is structured is driven by national politics. All the big organisations are deeply political and that incidentally prevents many people posting (due to employee bans) who would otherwise make good contributions.
Party politics is best avoided though. Well, if we carried adverts we would have to allow it (and allow the resulting fights) because you get 10x more traffic 
However, taking this back to this thread topic, sort of, in the West you can buy what you want if you can afford it and you can flaunt it for all to see and nobody can stop you. What people can do is shut down your airfield, etc.
However, taking this back to this thread topic, sort of, in the West you can buy what you want if you can afford it and you can flaunt it for all to see…
Brings me to an observation which is slightly tangential to ‘elistist’ but nonetheless.. Most people I know in aviation that are able to afford an aircraft own it not because of bragging rights. For starters, not much to show off if you have an aircraft sitting in a hangar. You’d need an upscale car or boat if you feel the need to expose your wealth and drive/sail circles in places where people are.. A lot easier too, because you need no skills to drive a Porsche..
On the whole, I sense a real passion for aviation amongst aircraft owners, apart from utility value that it might bring. And the same goes for people who cannot afford to buy. This flying bug.. A genuine desire, nothing to do with showing off. I’ve been involving myself in the UL scene here lately, and it is such a joy to see that people with a limited income can get their Fix (not necessarily an IAF, IF or FAF ) by just going airborne for 30 minutes and spend the rest of the morning watching others fly. Not a trace of elitism btw whatever that terms means.
Peter wrote:
I don’t think anybody can dispute that
I can, and I will. He he. Communism is a reaction to the class segregated society where people are born into a layer of the society they have no hopes of getting out of. If you are born as a poor factory worker, you, your children, your children’s children and so on will always be poor factory workers. This isn’t envy, it’s just a reaction to a society that is rotten and segregated, without equal opportunities. It’s simply unfair that a factory worker has to be poor, and it is unfair that he has no real opportunity do become anything else. That communism doesn’t really work, is another matter entirely. But i mean, just because communism didn’t work in Russia or USSR, doesn’t really mean anything, because capitalism doesn’t seem to work all that well there either. Communism works just fine in China, with their special “commu-capitalism”. Things like envy are cultural aspects and transcends political ideologies.
The way I see it is that all things gets corrupted sooner or later due to every and no particular reason, also in free societies. The clue is to change, to stir the pot before it gets completely out of hand and settles in concrete. Sometimes that change requires tearing down of social and political structures where power and wealth is concentrated too much. It is every man and women’s right and duty to do so with the sword in hand. So were the old Viking law, and IMO, that law sometimes seems more important today than 1000 years ago.
But back to topic
aart wrote:
This flying bug.. A genuine desire, nothing to do with showing off. I’ve been involving myself in the UL scene here lately, and it is such a joy to see that people with a limited income can get their Fix (not necessarily an IAF, IF or FAF ) by just going airborne for 30 minutes and spend the rest of the morning watching others fly. Not a trace of elitism btw whatever that terms means.
This is how it should be, and this IS how 90% of GA is today. Flying around, visiting other fields and having a great time. Nobody cares if you come in an old corroded wreck of a rented Cessna, or a microlight in all it’s incarnations, or a TBM. The important thing is to be “there”, to get your selfie on Facebook so to speak
