The ‘issue’ (if there is one) with automatics is that they tend to fail early, and the modern ones that achieve high performance typically cost a great deal to repair. Better for big, heavy vehicles I think, but at a cost.
Driving a manual as a daily driver is considered a bit odd in the US, where automatics have been the norm for 60 years or so. Manuals are regardless more robust and just more fun for me, except in dense traffic. I have two manuals and one automatic.
Motorcycles with manual gearboxes are a great deal more enjoyable than anything with four wheels. It’s a pleasure for me to escape four wheels when I can, to be part of the machine, whether it’s a plane or motorcycle. My brother in law has a V10 Audi R8 (with fancy gearbox) and almost any motorcycle is a lot more fun to me.
and hear people spout the same misconception as Peter
Spouting misconceptions? That’s a bit aggressive…
I work above a car dealership so used my legs and made some enquiries about the current situation.
The dual clutch gearboxes (which have a up/down change rather than the traditional 1 2 DRIVE etc lever) lose 3-5%. The full auto gearboxes lose 10-20%.
There are however many variations, with better perf if you are looking at €50k+ cars. The above are cars in the €15k-25k range.
For sure, an auto gearbox of any kind, even an old one, will do more MPG than a manual driven by a clumsy driver – as well as delivering a better 0-60 / 0-100 time with most drivers. And it will probably do more MPG in city traffic (very frequent changing). But that is a different scenario…
My own ownership of autos confirms what I wrote.
I landed at Ely, Nevada recently and the FBO guy offered me his full size Chevy pickup to drive into town for lunch. “But”, he said, obviously realising I was a foreigner, “It’s a stick shift. Can you manage that?”. My reply that “I drive a Land Rover” didn’t cut much ice when I had to call him up from outside the restaurant to ask him how you get the key out of the ignition! (A concealed button!).
There are lots of tragic accidents in automatics involving mostly elderly people who stamp on the accelerator when they need the brake, but on the other hand I’ve noticed that the California freeways keep flowing smoothly when speeds are down to 10-20 mph without the inevitable shunts that clog up our motorways, possibly because the auto transmissions allow smoother driving. Personally, I only buy auto cars and manual Land Rovers. Horses for courses.
Peter wrote:
The dual clutch gearboxes (which have a up/down change rather than the traditional 1 2 DRIVE etc lever) lose 3-5%. The full auto gearboxes lose 10-20%.
Such a sensitive chap… 
My crappy old Holden used to lock the torque converter when in top gear and cruising….in 1986…. As did my crappy V8 discovery in the 90s.,, as did my V8 540i and my CLK….torque converter loss is only relevant in start-stop traffic….but at least there’s no clutch to burn out or thrust bearings to fail
Peter wrote:
However, an auto gearbox is at least 10% off the MPG. Plus it’s always in the wrong gear when you need performance
You got stuck in the previous century or what?
Ultranomad wrote:
The latest models of automatics actually outperform manuals in terms of MPG.
Are you talking about official consumption or practice? In official numbers, you’re right, because manual transmissions are limited to (the lowest) five speeds and they have fixed shifting schedule (that should change in September 2017 for newly approved cars). While automatics can do whatever they want. In practice, they’re still less efficient. But I don’t really care, they’re good enough for me.
Peter wrote:
I know a guy who was a Merc salesman and then a BMW salesman and he said Merc drivers want auto and BMW drivers want manual. The brand self selects on the character profile… as so much else in life.
Year, right. Outside the performance models, manual transmissions are seen mostly as the cheap option. When F10 (current 5er) came to market, IIRC it wasn’t even available with a manual box (there should be something like 518d these days and that probably has it). Around here, your typical BMW not only has an automatic gearbox, it also has xDrive (even the small 3er is sold mostly with xDrive, last year it was more than 80 % IIRC, but I guess that’s way above the EU average).
Peter wrote:
The brand self selects on the character profile… as so much else in life.
Well, I got a BMW and a eUp, until recently also an old wreck of a Chevy Blazer What is funny is how other drivers react to the BMW vs the eUp. In the BMW, other drivers let me pass easily and sort of get out of the way without me having to do anything. When in the eUp, I have several times noticed people coming from behind and blinking aggressively with the head lights to signal thy want to pass, that has never happened when driving the BMW. What’s funny in the eUp is to stop at red light with a BMW beside me, then rocket passed him when it turns green You just don’t know the meaning of low end torque before driving an electric car
You mean this one?
I’ve got an automatic now for the first time in my life. Two reasons. The first one is that I wanted to get a serious naturally aspirated V8 before legislation killed them off entirely. Given the reputation the M3 has for big bills and the fact that I just don’t fancy Mercedes the ISF was the only choice. It only ever was an auto. The other reason was that I was sick of sitting in traffic driving a manual. Hence the ISF.
I have believed for years that while an automatic might theoretically deliver worse MPG and performance than a manual, for that to be true the manual would have to be driven by a competent driver who drives competently all the time.
Years ago the Metropolitan Police reckoned that automatics were cheaper for the overall as they saved more from not having to replace clutches and other transmission bits than they spent in extra fuel.
Joe_90 wrote:
Years ago the Metropolitan Police reckoned that automatics were cheaper for the overall as they saved more from not having to replace clutches and other transmission bits than they spent in extra fuel.
Police service would be hard on clutches. A friend of mine owns a BMW motorcycle dealer that services police motorcycles. It is not uncommon for clutches to be replaced every 15,000 miles or less.
For privately owned cars with manual gearboxes or modern automatics, I think the fuel economy is similar but the automatic will cost more to own over the life of the car because they tend to fail early in various ways depending on type, and cost a lot to repair. My 10 year old 275 HP manual shift car (bought new) is on its original clutch at 165,000 miles, with no sign of problems so far. Keep your fingers crossed for me, because I’d like to run it to 200,000 miles before tossing it and getting another…
The last few days I’ve been driving my ancient automatic, achieving 11 mpg (21 L per 100 km) as a result of V12 power that mainly heats up the torque converter, radiator and everything else within 100 yards/meters. That has nothing to do with late model automatic cars, but it’s a relaxing thing on occasion
