+1 for @Mooney_Driver, and let’s not forget Clement Ader who made the first powered flight, albeit not very far even by Wright Flyer standards.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
And as far as I know those two companies are the only ones who made it through certification of a new airplane in recent years without bancruptcy…
TECNAM P2008 JC certified in 2011, P2010 certified in 2014. Evektor Sportstar RTC certified in 2012. Blackshape BS 155 certified in 2017. Bristell B23 certified in 2020. Just to mention a few that I found in a quick search. All of these companies are still around and AFAIK except possibly for the BS 155 the aircraft are all in production. Of course except for the P2010 none of these are IFR tourers.
Clement Ader was a fascinating man and a great visionary.
The address of our aerodrome and several others is true Clement Ader shows how revered he is in the history of France.
He was significant in the development of cycling as a sport. He developed a sound system which allowed the first stereo broadcast of an opera.
For.@Capitaine you might find his book “l’aviation militaire” interesting. He wrote it 5 years before the 1st world war and it is his vision of the part aviation could play in wars.He also foresaw the form of the modern aircraft carrier.
Silvaire wrote:
I don’t publish my exact location
That wasn’t what I asked for.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Looking at their GA, it appears they are doing the right thing for their people
Yes, but they are down right hostile towards others, for instance the 600kg limit. This gives a penalty of €50 and lots of nuisance applications filling. See the document here.
This is definitely not how to make things better in Europe.
But it is allowing us to keep what we want as far as UL is concerned.
Still no -one answers what the requirements are to owning and flying a UL in their country. In other words what would we have to give up to fly a 600kg UL. I have given a list of the freedoms that we cherish here. The biggest being self declaration across the board.
IMO the DGAC have been very lenient in that pilots from other countries can fly a 600kg UL at a cost of only 50€ and a PPR request if @LeSving is correct.
gallois wrote:
I have given a list of the freedoms that we cherish here. The biggest being self declaration across the board.
Then the real questions should be: are there any countries in Europe that accept 600 kg ULs, don’t accept self-declaration but did when the MTOM was 450 kg?
IMO the DGAC have been very lenient in that pilots from other countries can fly a 600kg UL at a cost of only 50€
What possible flight safety effect do those €50 have? To me it looks more like a way of not letting UL pilots from other countries get away with what French pilots can’t have without giving them some punishment.
Not punishment égalité.
You will notice there is nothing stopping you flying a 500/525kg UL from Sweden flying across France.
Do I need a medical to fly my ULM in Sweden?
Does Sweden accept my UL licence which is not a PPL licence or connected to it?
Does Sweden need an ARC or Cof A issued annually?
Can I fly my ULM in CAS in Sweden?
Do I need an ELP to fly my UL in Sweden or is my ability to speak English or Swedish (if I could) acceptable?
Do I need separate radio telephony licence to fly my UL in Sweden?
These are just some of the questions I would ask before talking of France punishing countries who have moved to 600kg MTOW
I would also ask that if I were to try to get a UL licence in Sweden would there be a minimum number of hours or does it depend on competence judged by an instructor.
Is there a theory exam? Is it one test paper or more?
Is that 600kg MTOW including parachute or is it 625kg with it?
What is the MTOW in Sweden with floats?
Can you fly a UL helicopter in Sweden or a helicopter on a UL licence?
If the answer to any of these questions is no, then why would we want to give up what we have now for an extra 75kg to 100kg MTOW?
And why would we go against our constitution “all are equal” in favour of pilots and ULs from other countries?
Oh I forgot " do I have to be able to show a logbook in Sweden?" Do I have to record all flights? Do I have to revalidate my licence each year or each 2 years?
Do I have to have an engine log or prop log?
gallois wrote:
If the answer to any of these questions is no, then why would we want to give up what we have now for an extra 75kg to 100kg MTOW?
And why would we go against our constitution “all are equal” in favour of pilots and ULs from other countries?
I’m not suggesting France should change anything in how it handles its ULs. I’m just questioning the flight safety benefit of charging €50 to allow temporary flight of a 600 kg UL from another country in French airspace.
No one ever suggested there was a safety case. Other than the safety case than has been negotiated and agreed between French ULM pilots and the DGAC.
(There is some sort of weight equation where your ULM crashing onto 3rd party property risks only limited damage, normally.. A bit like an assurance assessment.)
After all you could register that same aircraft as a LSA or experimental (?) and as long as you have an EASA PPL SEP A etc to fly it in your own country, you can fly it in France without permission or paying €50.
The market fills the need, yes, but there are also ground-breaking innovations which create a need (or rather, reveal one) where previously noone could see it.
For aircrafts today this is relevant because the demand price elasticity is high. Meaning if you halve the purchase price, you get loads more demand. And that would be a way of restoring some of the manufacturing volume that was lost in the 70s.
As has been said we can’t rely forever on the same stock of 60-70s aircrafts. The stock will decay one day, and the first manufacturer who can make a decent reliable modern aircraft for a smaller price has the potential to completely turn the new aircraft market around. I’m not saying it’s needed right now (there is still stock), but it will need to happen someday. And provided the correct investments are made to drastically reduce costs, a lot of new people would be attracted to GA, or a lot of current pilots would be enclined to own etc., hence sustaining a much higher volume industry and apparently “creating” the demand (a demand that is not visible right now, or at least not high enough).
