alioth wrote:
If there is one thing I have not encountered in GA, it’s snobbery
I have, it was reflected in the attitude at a south western UK GA Airport where I was sat in the restaurant, waiting for the return of an aircraft to return. Two “sky gods” with military style overalls and helmets turned up, having landed two display aircraft and promptly started slagging off all the arriving aircraft as being dilapidated and crap, wondering – extremely loudly – where this or that P-o-S had been dredged up from.
Suddenly the highlight of their day came when a flexwing came in to land – “ah, here comes the micro-shite brigade,” was their response… Those sort of people DO exist and usually you will find them in such semi-military flight overalls, doing their best to suck in their beer guts whilst thrusting out a (no longer) chiselled jaw….
Two “sky gods” with military style overalls and helmets turned up, having landed two display aircraft and promptly started slagging off all the arriving aircraft
Would you agree that there’s idiots everywhere, but that this is something very rare?
I think the incidence of aviation snobbery is found in isolated pockets. Some pseudo military pilots are indeed unbearable, but I have met some amazingly talented people who are modest and personable.
One of the airfields I frequent is a busy microlight site as well as housing some SEPs. I find the microlight, hang glider, and parasail pilots fantastic company, they seem to appreciate the joy of flight for it’s own sake, and look at all aviation as interesting and worthwhile. Some of those pilots are also flying heavier types, including airliners, but they don’t make a lot of it, and certainly don’t look down on ordinary pilots like me and my ilk.
I would agree this (really great) caricature by Steve6443 is not very common but I have seen it many times.
The problem is that when it comes to putting people off learning to fly they need to see it only once. It’s a bit like when you run your own business. If you stick the answering machine on just once during working hours, almost every potential customer who happens to phone during that time will never be seen again. Or if your “telephonist” is rude to a customer just once, that customer is likely lost for ever.
And it isn’t just people with a thin skin who get put off. It is also professional / successful people who get put off because they simply don’t waste their life hanging out with these types. So you lose customers at both ends of the market. You lose the “high attrition rate newcomers” and you lose those who have the money (and probably the time too) to hang in there long-term. You also lose most of the women, which pretty well kills off the social aspect for all but the “hard core” enthusiasts. You end up with the middle bit and that bit is shrinking, because the rest have plenty of other stuff to do.
That’s true about the telephonist. On my US trip, I went to Cibolo Creek Ranch, a hotel with their own airstrip. After I had made my reservation, I called them to get the airfield information that they mentioned in their website. The guy on the other end didn’t even seem to know they had a runway. Promised me calls and emails that never came. After some time I got really fed up when I had to spell my name, email address and phone number over the phone for the third time. Almost cancelled the trip but luckily didn’t.
When I arrived, the manager and staff were wonderful, they even checked the runway with the car before we landed or took off and switched on the lighting. The manager said that I had spoken to their “messaging system”, to which I replied “no it was a real person”, but what he meant is they employed someone to answer the phone for them… This can really make a difference.
boscomantico wrote:
As a Mooniac you ought to know that the oldest Ovations are over 20 years old.
My bad, sorry, you are right of course, actually 22 years, the first conventional Ovation came out in 1994. The 10 year period referred to the GX2 with the G1000 model, which came out in 2005 and which we had been discussing.
boscomantico wrote:
So neither you have directly met any of the above types of people, he?
I’ve had my share of experiences with folks who “advised” me not to upgrade my existing airplane but throw it away and get a “real plane” instead. And I have been part of discussions both online and offline about aircraft ownership which went extremely ugly and not helpful for anyone involved.
boscomantico wrote:
You know, on the one hand, you keep criticizing people for supposedly advising people against buying old / cheap aircraft, stating that it is no good for the future of GA.
Well, do you think it would be good if people shy away from affordable airframes (the idea that this equates old and cheap is not mine here, mind) and rather not fly at all then to do something they can afford?
If anything, this kind of elitism is not restricted to aviation… For instance I wanted to continue playing golf here in Switzerland after starting in the UK and US for some time but was very fast driven away by exactly the same kind of elitarian crowd who artificially make their infrastructure inaccessible to normalos like me with horrendous entrance fees for memberships. Thankfully this is being countered by some public courses by now, but it does not help that to many golf is still a game of the very rich they would never consider. For me, that aviation has acquired the mostly unjustified image of a rich man’s sport is one of the primary reasons it is declining in Europe and one bit I try to fight against.
boscomantico wrote:
On the other hand you do much the same; you discourage people from flying with your permanent negativity on regulatory / airport aspects, it defies belief.
Making people aware of places which are not GA friendly or traps others have fallen into so they can avoid them in favour of others which are is discouraging them to fly? And this has to do what which the subject here?
Regarding the main topic, earlier this year the Department for Transport produced a report (I guess you know it already) entitled “The Economic Value of General Aviation in the UK”. It is a comprehensive 169 pages report but the first few pages resume their findings and proposals. The recommendations include action regarding planning and the strategic network of UK Aerodromes. training, the recognition of the importance/potencial of air taxi industry, regulation (I believe CAA is already working on this) and product innovation.
It is a very interesting document. You can find it here – Report [local copy here]
Or if your “telephonist” is rude to a customer just once, that customer is likely lost for ever.
This is true, but it’s incredibly satisfying to do it to some particular customers just when you are on the verge of retirement.
The reality of GA … GAMA have released the 3rd quarter sales figures.
American Champion Aircraft: 6
Cirrus Aircraft: 87
CubCrafters: 9
DAHER: 11
Diamond Aircraft: 32
Extra Aircraft: 6
Maule Air, Inc.: 9
Mooney International Corp.: 2
ONE Aviation Corp.: 2
Pilatus: 19
Piper Aircraft, Inc: 28
Quest Aircraft Company: 8
Robinson Helicopter Company: 92
Textron Aviation (Beech): 39
Textron (Cessna 172-206): 50
Textron (Cessna TTx): 4
Textron (Caravan): 29
Textron (Cessna Jets): 37
WACO: 2
F59 there are some more Super Cub type manufacturers out there: Legend comes to mind. Also Aviat with their Husky and Pitts output.
