Peter wrote:
Yes – a Rockwell Commander, near Gatwick.Highly speculative of course, like nearly all GA investigations.
I thought it was a PA28. The Gatwick one was a typical case of VFR into IMC if I recall correctly.
(one thing about the Gatwick one is that the calculations afterwards showed the commander remained in one piece until about 9.5G when the wing snapped off – which is comforting ;) ).
tomjnx wrote:
AFAIK nobody disputes that the pilot is ultimately responsible for the course of the aircraft. There are different ways to achieve this: directly manipulate the controls set up navigation and engage the autopilot tell a second person how to manipulate the controls to achieve the desired course
No, you are the second person confusing the term Pilot In Command with the phrase “acting as a pilot”. The Article 7 regulation does not state that the person acting the controls needs to be PIC. It states that the person acting the controls (acting as a pilot) needs to be licensed and ‘medicalled’. A whole different matter.
NCYankee wrote:
So what rule mandates that the pilot of an aircraft with dual controls must sit in the left hand seat?
On some aircraft the POH/AFM does! I.e. Cessna 208. On other aircraft there is no such rule as you rightly point out. There is no blanket rule stating that as you rightly point out too.
huv wrote:
“And you can’t change PIC during the flight.”
Airborne_Again, this is the same kind of discussion, and another grey area in my view. I am convinced that it is not explicitly stated anywhere that the PIC must be the same during the whole flight, but you and some other pilots I know still think it is illegal to change. Most people interprets when reading the rules, even the ones claiming not to.
Article 8 Annex IV states: Before every flight, the roles and duties of each crew member must be defined. The pilot in command must be responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft and for the safety of all crew members, passengers and cargo on board.
So, you cannot determine who is PIC during the flight..
huv wrote:
Pilots fly together and take turns being the PIC.
In EASA land this is illegal.
Is
Before every flight, the roles and duties of each crew member must be defined
the same as
you cannot determine who is PIC during the flight
?
The way I see it, the definition requirement would be met by deciding (on the ground) that X will be PIC for the first hour and Y will be PIC for the second hour.
Archie wrote:
Article 8 Annex IV states: Before every flight, the roles and duties of each crew member must be defined.
Thanks for looking it up! I knew I had seen it, but couldn’t remember where.
It is surely an EU thing whereby people love to discuss the intricacies of the law to such an extent that it becomes pointless.
If I fly one way, I am PIC for that leg. If my mate flies the other, then he is PIC. If I fly and let my dad have a go, I am PIC….
In FAA land PIC can change – for example if one is doing instrument practice with a safety pilot. If the flight enters IMC and the safety pilot is IR’d and the “PIC” is not, then the safety pilot becomes PIC as clearly you cannot be PIC if you are not rated.
But at the end of the day, as long as you know what is going on, then it doesn’t really matter.
for example if one is doing instrument practice with a safety pilot. If the flight enters IMC and the safety pilot is IR’d and the “PIC” is not, then the safety pilot becomes PIC as clearly you cannot be PIC if you are not rated.
I wonder how the hell one squares up that one (which is real and common enough, and clearly legal if insurance covers it) with
Article 8 Annex IV states: Before every flight, the roles and duties of each crew member must be defined.
I guess they have not thought about that 
Peter wrote:
I wonder how the hell one squares up that one (which is real and common enough, and clearly legal if insurance covers it) withArticle 8 Annex IV states: Before every flight, the roles and duties of each crew member must be defined.
I guess they have not thought about that
Easy Seriously, I don’t see the problem. That situation is 100% defined. It’s just that it has to be planned before flight, not during flight.
Has anyone mentioned the safety pilot course for partners, wives, gf, bf, and they would want to keep current – wouldnt they?
