LeSving wrote:
so they could “release” the boxes from storage.
The difference is that boxes are being moved by a shipping company. Aircraft just fly from outside the tax territory into it and there is no way to know whether the aircraft will just be visiting and leave after a while or stay.
The need to pay VAT also depends on if the new owner is a participant of the VAT system or is supposed to be one. Which also brings us to the whole “operator” thing as well.
Stephan_Schwab wrote:
The difference is that boxes are being moved by a shipping company. Aircraft just fly from outside the tax territory into it and there is no way to know whether the aircraft will just be visiting and leave after a while or stay.The need to pay VAT also depends on if the new owner is a participant of the VAT system or is supposed to be one. Which also brings us to the whole “operator” thing as well.
Not for private use. I could in principle just use my (paper) company to import the boxes with no VAT, but would (most probably) sooner or later end up in trouble with the taxation authorities if/when they discover I own aircraft that are manufactured by myself. Being experimental aircraft it cannot be used for commercial operations.
Aircraft can fly here and there, but they are no different than boats. Boats don’t even need to be registered, so in principle no one would now know if my boat is sailed in from Bahamas or wherever (insurance and stuff could cause problems though, but not necessarily). But, when living in the UK and purchasing an aircraft from a UK company, there shouldn’t be any uncertainties about anything. A receipt from the company that you have paid for it + VAT (considering you will use it for private use) only shows what you have payed, so the company cannot come around a second time requesting VAT, but that’s it. The company may or may not pay the VAT, but there is nothing you can do about it, and it’s not your business, not your responsibility. The authorities certainly cannot come to you to claim it. A private person, an end user, cannot be held responsible for any ill-doings by a company selling stuff. I don’t see what problems this could cause.
A receipt from the company that you have paid for it + VAT (considering you will use it for private use) only shows what you have payed, so the company cannot come around a second time requesting VAT, but that’s it. The company may or may not pay the VAT, but there is nothing you can do about it, and it’s not your business, not your responsibility.
That’s my opinion too. If anybody is repsonsible for the VAT in this situation, it’s the seller. I have dicussed this with a/c dealers and even with customs people, and they agreed.
. If anybody is repsonsible for the VAT in this situation, it’s the seller. I have dicussed this with a/c dealers and even with customs people, and they agreed.
If it was as simple as that, there would be a thriving business buying and immediately selling back planes.
Also a VAT invoice from a long gone company (i.e. the majority of aviation businesses) is trivial to fake and is completely unverifiable.
It is not your responsibility if a company went out of business. And not everybody is a suspect in the first place.
By the way, the whole VAT thing can really only be critical if the airplane was imported used from outside the EU, because If the aircraft is on an EU register EU countries are prohibited under the EU VAT treaty from questioning the VAT status. THey can only check the VAT status of airplanes under their own registration. (France can only check F-reg, or N-reg, but not a G-reg)
If the aircraft is on an EU register EU countries are prohibited under the EU VAT treaty from questioning the VAT status. THey can only check the VAT status of airplanes under their own registration. (France can only check F-reg, or N-reg, but not a G-reg)
Funnily enough I have been unable to find a reference to this when someone challenged it.
I even asked a well known UK aviation consultant but he never got back to me.
It is not your responsibility if a company went out of business.
That is true with normal consumer items.
If it was true with aircraft then the bankruptcy of whoever you bought the plane from would guarantee your import vat status.
And not everybody is a suspect in the first place.
You are if picked up by a policeman with a big gun at some foreign airport 
This thread is confusing paying VAT if you purchase from a VAT registered entity with the VAT that must be paid when an aircraft is first imported into the EU.
If we assume an aircraft was imported into the UK by a private individual and no VAT was paid. The aircraft is then sold to a company that wants to use it for charter and as it is sold by a private individual there is no VAT to be paid. That company then sells to a private individual, they are charged VAT and the VAT is itself paid the HMRC.
Unless you can prove that VAT was paid when it was imported, there is still a problem. That you have a VAT receipt has nothing to do with it. The original VAT was never paid when it should have been.
I agree.
This unfortunately leads to how the hell are about 99% of non-EU-made aircraft owners going to prove import vat was paid.
I think the first thing is the age. The UK had an amnesty in the 1980s so anything old enough and with proof of continuous residence here is ok.
There is no reason whatsoever to challenge the VAT status if the airplane is registered in the EU – if it was once registered in the EU the VAT status is clear. That’s what all aircraft dealers i asked told me.
AFAIK only N-regs are checked for VAT, and that’s because you have to pay the VAT if you have an N-reg in the EU longer than 6 months.
It’s the same with cars by the way. Nobody will ever check the owner of a US made car (i have two) if “VAT was paid”. But if your US registered car is parked in front of your house in Germany for a year, you will be asked about the import duties for sure.
Or: there is no example that i know of that a EU registered plane was ever checked for its VAT status.
I also asked Cirrus Europe, because my plane was San Marino registered when i first boughr it. Answer: The invoice from Cirrus Europe showing that the VAT was charged from the first buyer is enough proof.
