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Aircraft VAT / import VAT / getting busted upon landing in the EU (merged thread)

No way could a European based piston plane (or I suspect any other) be operating FAA Part 135 (Commuter and On Demand Operations). To do that it would have to be on an EU AOC, etc, etc.

What I find frustrating about these reports is that when – and this happens rarely – one is able to investigate the incident through personally known contacts, the story turns out to be quite different to what was posted publicly. But in most of those cases I can’t post the “real” details publicly, either because of who told me or because it would make the targetted owner look a fool. Or maybe the person posted the clarification under another nickname in another forum, and it would be bad form to blow his other identity! Especially if that other forum is behind a paywall. Of course this has the potential for making me look like an idiot, too… and some people have in the past enjoyed that, knowing exactly why I could not post the stuff.

But GA is full of half-truths and non-truths – don’t even get me started on what information is passed to new owners in the logbooks, in cases where I happen to have been in contact with both the previous one and the new one

Yet, these inspections clearly do happen. They happen highly sporadically because you could land your plane, say N-reg to be extra provocative, in France 100 times and never see anybody, and then somebody else does it and gets hit the 3rd time they land there. I am pretty sure the French police simply don’t bother with certain airports (perhaps there is no restaurant with decent wine nearby?) and if you just happen to only go there… this is very likely to be true for my flying because I have never been inspected (except in the UK, very loosely) but I am damned if I can work out a pattern.

I’m flabbergasted that people let the maintenance company keep their logbooks

Most UK owners do that.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I’ve just read of an N-reg stopped at Biarritz LFBZ, for

  • VAT docs
  • VOR check within last 30 days
  • GPS database updates logged
  • 61.75 license, so European licenses and medical validity checked

Very well informed inspectors!

But, we have heard this before so many times. There is some sort of inspector school based there. You would be crazy to fly there in an N-reg.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

To give a bit more colour, I wasn’t stopped but inspected, and given everything was in order, it lasted max 10 minutes and we were on our way with a very friendly “Bonne fin de journée.”

You’d be crazy to NOT go to Biarritz, N reg or not, it’s a fine destination with one of the most beautiful departures in Europe, right over the beach and the endless miles of sand that stretch to the north towards Cap Ferré. Good food, too!

I did mention to the gendarmes that they have a bit of a reputation. They said the whole area is a major drug transit hotspot, with cars loaded up with “stuff” coming from North Africa via Spain, and they’re permanently on high alert.

Last Edited by denopa at 03 Aug 13:15
EGTF, LFTF

@denopa: how does drug trafficking relate to the 30 day VOR check?

Depending on how deep they drill, they will find something. I know that many (most?) N-reg pilots do not bother to make up something about the 30 day VOR check in the logbook. Are you sure carry all AFMS for all modifications every done? Even without special training I am sure I could find something about every GA aircraft there is and probably do so in 10 minutes. I find it rather troubling what the French do and also would avoid Biarritz for that — the risk is not small.

I wonder what they would have said if you told them you were not using the VOR system of navigation so didn’t need a VOR check.

EGTK Oxford

Depending on how deep they drill, they will find something

I agree. Same with tax, etc.

Are you sure carry all AFMS for all modifications every done?

True for G-reg, etc, etc too. I know an installer who has done ~ 100 GNS430/530 boxes, since year 2000. None of them have any paperwork. He just doesn’t do that. He is just a freelancer who will put in a 430 outdoors, in the rain, whatever. Even a “well known” avionics shop here on the UK south coast quotes on the basis “certification is the responsibility of the customer”. I have such a quote, for a 530W. Hey ho, every one of his customers knows how to do that, yeah, right.

I wonder what they would have said if you told them you were not using the VOR system of navigation so didn’t need a VOR check.

Well, FWIW, I didn’t know about that (till it came up here recently). And I know for a fact, having been reading US sites for ~ 10 years, that maybe 99% of the people out there don’t know that either.

Biarritz is lovely; I agree. It was my first long trip when I got the TB20. But one doesn’t need this…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

To bring a bit of balance – as I mentioned already I’ve been rampchecked a week ago in Beaune, miles away from any Gendarme school (or dodgy border). The checklist was very thorough. Licenses, medical, insurance, noise certif, radio license, weighing certificate, AFM, plane logbook, W&B (i thought it was the weighing certificate but no – they wanted to see a proper load and trim sheet), ELT… everything. It took long enough for Basel Info to call up the airfield and inquire why I didn’t close the flight plan yet.

Maybe there is some sort of “check program” going on.

Jason,
I did mention to them I didn’t use the VOR much and they seemed to agree that I wouldn’t need the check unless I was using it. Having said that, the VOR check covers the use of the localiser on an ILS, doesn’t it?

@achimha,

I have 8 mods and carry the AFMS if needed and updated W&B for them. That includes the GTNs, the EDM, the amp/volt display, the long range caps, the removal of the middle seat, the reinforced engine mount and the CD player :-)

The drug stuff simply explains why they have a big presence in Biarritz. It could go both ways, as in you could say they should have better things to do. I would definitely agree with that. On the other hand, one check in 6 years of flying N reg in and out of France hardly constitutes harassment.

EGTF, LFTF

I looked up Beaune. Is it LFGF? It’s a strange place to pick, since it has no Customs/Immigration so anybody flying there from outside needs a flight plan, and a non Schengen FP to LFGF will be instantly visible to anybody monitoring traffic. I wonder if the are people flying intra-Schengen below the radar, picking small (but reliably usable i.e. tarmac) airfields?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

LFGF indeed. I fly there from “non-Schengen” but Geneva has dual French and Swiss customs status. But customs weren’t there only the Air Gendarme.

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