So. I don’t want to be mean, but from what i see the proportions are “plane” ugly. Sometimes it’s the details … But then, I don’t like any of the Diamond designs aswell.
Another proof how well Cirrus worked designing the SR2x series. You might not like the FG, but compared to this the Cirrus is a real beauty.
VANS! Those are good looking planes, I agree! I always wanted to have an RV 8 …
How many of those 8’890 sold in China – or outside the US for that matter?
Let me rephrase. How many wealthy Chinese do you see dicking around for years to end up with a 1960es product of random quality?
That market segment is into instant gratification. “Self-evidently”.
There’s many companies who could build an RV quickly, and I think they are great trainers. They are also aerobatic.
Well, if others can sell (or want to) sell 60s designs, why shouldn’t Vans do so?
Obviously the people behind these Chinese owned companies would like to create an international non-US market for certified GA aircraft that doesn’t currently exist. I wonder if they really have a vision of how societies that substantially restrict individuals will progress to point of becoming a significant GA market?
Vans aircraft designs were initiated in the 70s, and new designs are released periodically. The company has succeeded on the basis of producing higher performance, more practical aircraft at lower cost than the competition, and selling them largely into a market that allows its residents the opportunity to take part in GA without excessive cost. That has proved to be a volume business in the real world, and not contingent on a new world order. If that doesn’t suit you, tough 
While I am not the biggest fan of New Mooney, I think they look OK. A bit like every other new composite design right now. The Chinese market for aviation schools is real. Owner flyers not so much.
Is Mooney really selling meaningful numbers of the existing designs?
Obviously the people behind these Chinese owned companies would like to create an international non-US market for certified GA aircraft that doesn’t currently exist. I wonder if they really have a vision of how societies that substantially restrict individuals will progress to point of becoming a significant GA market?
China is a mystery to “most people”. I think the reason is that “most people” only think that things can be done “our way”. Who knows? maybe China has stumbled upon a recipe where the society and the individual ultimately creates a better place for both? I mean, have you seen anything that makes you believe that the Chinese communist party is against GA?
That has proved to be a volume business in the real world
Then you also have to remember that Rotax has sold about 50 thousand 912/914 since they started production in 1989. The European microlight industry is producing 1600 aircraft per year. Aircraft that most people can afford, and some of them cruises as fast as an RV. I don’t mean most microloghts can be compared to an RV in performance, but when talking about volume business in the real world, then Van’s are small, even though they have been around for a while.
Even in the thickest RV-land, people are looking for alternatives to the dinosaur engines. So far none has been able to compete on price/performance, except Rotax on the RV-12 (instead of a O-200). The RV-12 is designed around the 912 ULS. Van’s is a very pragmatic company. They will design an aircraft around any engine if they think it will sell.
Where are the photos of these new Mooneys? I can see only the old stuff.
As I’ve said before, the Chinese who are investing in this must have a plan of some sort, otherwise they would not be doing this. I do business with the Chinese and they are not stupid. Culturally mega different but not stupid.
As Silvaire IMHO spot on correctly suggests, a whole new GA market will have to be created somewhere, and it sure as hell isn’t going to be created in Europe. Even if you could sell SR22/TB20-type IFR tourers for €100k, you would sell that many more because the activity level is constrained by all sorts of factors e.g. the effort required to get an IR, dodgy airspace access policies, you name it. You won’t do it in the USA either…I think their plan is to sell loads in China.
China is a big place and if they can create a market which in % population terms is 1% of the size of Europe they will still sell loads of hardware. I guess Europe has about 100k people who at some stage had a PPL (and obviously most of them are not flying now) and imagine that if you did anything even remotely resembling that in China’s vast population…
But there are bigger factors.
In Europe, people are reticent about obviously displaying their wealth. More in some countries than others, for sure… But it’s not fashionable. Whereas the really rich Chinese (and Russians even more) tend to show off absolutely everything they can show off. Cars, jewellery, a wife with loads more jewellery (and usually some surgery up front). That’s great for GA.
The Chinese also have a different taste for fashion and the way it moves with time. In the West, the 1950s airframes are seen as… 1950s airframes. Nobody will say they are modern beautiful designs. Some will call them “classic” – like an E-Type Jaguar. But the main reason people buy them and fly them is because – within the IFR performance / mission capability envelope – the choices are limited, and most people don’t want or can’t buy a $800k Cirrus. But the Chinese are different. They love old stuff. Guess where I sold all my 1970s/80s film cameras and lenses? Ebay to China! They absolutely love that old crap. I got about 500 quid for a 35 year old Tamron F8 500mm catadioptric lens. So 1950s airframes are just right for that market. They are classics!
In the West, the rich people are subject to the same laws, so they can’t fly across London in a SEP, but in China they are not subject to the same laws. You buy extra rights and if you get unlucky and p*iss off somebody big, you buy yourself out of it. I got a little taste of how lawless the place is when recently a contract manufacturer who I used went bust, and the managers escaped back to Taiwan because the company owed some wages and they would have been murdered (not kidding – I do mean killed). After a while 1 or 2 sneaked back into China and did a “deal” with the administrator and extracted some of the stock which they then, wait for it…. sold me So… this is another big plus for GA, which suffers from massive over-regulation and becomes a lot easier if you can bribe your way use your contacts to get around.
As a poor man’s Cirrus this M10 might have a good market in the USA, though indeed not selling by the thousands, perhaps. And possibly some success in China’s neighbour countries like Japan, Korea, Taiwan – but I understand these have no great tradition of G/A. Malaysia? Singapore? Next Australia?
Selling loads of them in China is not going to happen overnight, IMHO – no tradition, no aerodromes, no ATC, no club circuit to take care of the training. All of that will have to grow with the years.
