On my flight to LESA last weekend I found ASKAN was in the Eurocontrol route (generated by the EuroGA router) but was not in the KLN94 database, which was a current cycle from Jeppesen.
This is extremely rare – first time I have seen it in Eurocontrol IFR, 2005 onwards – and I wonder how it can happen.
It was between two other waypoints so I just ignored it and ATC didn’t refer to it.
This is probably not that rare. I seem to remember a post from Achim somewhere that he reported several waypoints to Eurocontrol which validated ok but were not contained in other databases or even unknown to the respective country ATC.
Personally, I came across this twice. Once a few months ago with waypoint TEBGO which was supposed to be somewhere South of Berlin but unknown to Jeppesen, SkyDemon, RocketRoute and even the German ATC. The second point was just this Thursday on a flight from the Netherlands back to Munich when I was given a shortcut by Langen direct to FRANK. The current Jeppesen database on the GTN 650 only knew a FRANK near Luton which obviously was not the correct one while SD showed the correct FRANK as a waypoint near Mannheim.
Funnily, the Jeppesen database on the GTN-trainer for the PC actually contains the FRANK near Mannheim.
It is in Flitestar/Jeppview
Funnily, the Jeppesen database on the GTN-trainer for the PC actually contains the FRANK near Mannheim
Aren’t the databases in the simulators deliberately out of date? The Eurocontrol Skyview one always was and I am sure it was for that reason.
The “ghost intersections” I know about were almost all in Germany, with Germany allocating intersections and then forgetting about it. Another one was between Ireland and the UK. These have been removed.
Interestingly ASKAN is not on any airway (lower or upper) and I can’t see it featuring on any procedure for LFBD which would be the obvious place to look.
The 5NLC link is most interesting, but I am missing some background information. What is its scope? Only en-route? Only high-altitde en-route?
I did not find LONDI in it (not the one I thought of, at least), though this is mentioned in the BE AIP, as a mandatary VRP when approaching EBGB.
Neither did I find Nicky, which must once have been a VRP but today is a VOR – I should have thought there remains a waypoint associated?
I did not find LONDI in it (not the one I thought of, at least), though this is mentioned in the BE AIP, as a mandatary VRP when approaching EBGB.
VRPs are generally not considered waypoints. They are in some countries, but not all.
Neither did I find Nicky, which must once have been a VRP but today is a VOR – I should have thought there remains a waypoint associated?
Why must it once have been a VRP? I’m certain Nicky was a VOR in the late 80s.
The clever thing to do was to consult ENR 4.3 like Tom did – it seems to confirm that only enroute-waypoints are mentioned, either because they are on airways, or they are mentioned in SID/STAR procedures.
AA: you are certainly right there has been a VOR at Nicky for a very long time, but I was thinking earlier yet. Not really relevant, though.
