Will they trust a student or renter with such a short endurance?
The endurance could be a big problem for training if a runway is blocked for a short time, near the end of the training sortie .Eg light aircraft off runway, requiring to be pushed clear.
The endurance could be a big problem for training if a runway is blocked for a short time, near the end of the training sortie .Eg light aircraft off runway, requiring to be pushed clear.
As has been mentioned already, the same applies to gliders. I started flying in gliders. In the early evening, when the thermals died all at once together, three or four or five gliders would land within one minute on the same runway. No problem at all.
The endurance could be a big problem for training if a runway is blocked for a short time, near the end of the training sortie .Eg light aircraft off runway, requiring to be pushed clear.
And how often does that happen??
I would estimate that 50% of the aircraft stationed at my airfield are not used for going to places.
Probably the same at mine. Must most have the need to go places occasionally. Schools need to do qualifying cross countries, and while many private owners and groups rarely go very far, they all like to once or twice a year, and more importantly, generally they buy their aircraft with the intention of doing longer trips. Often they don’t end up doing them, but that is the motivating factor being getting their own aircraft in the first place. At least that’s what I think, but of course I could be wrong!
Most students are ATPL students and there it does not matter at all.
True that I hadn’t considered ATPL students, and was just considering my own parish ;) I’m not sure that it’s true to say that most students are ATPL students, but I accept that they are a significant market.
A Renault Zoe with 22kWh battery can be charged in half an hour with standard AC 43kW chargers. My car can be charged with 50kW DC and supposedly soon 75kW DC (a 20kWh battery). The Airbus prototype has 4.8kWh battery capacity. Fast charging has come a very long way.
That’s impressive. If I understand those figures, it would mean that the battery could be charged in 5-10 minutes (4.8kw/75kw…is that the way it works?) That would certainly eliminate the problem. Indeed it might make airport hopping a possibility.
Not necessarily. I haven’t read all the details, but if you have a swappable battery compartment, you simply slide the depleted set out and the fully charged one in. Should be done in a couple of minutes.
Would such batteries not be heavy and require a lot of man handeling? I just can’t see schools employing two people to do battery swaps (bring out charged battery to the aircraft, swap the, and bring the used one back to the charging station) while an instructor is bringing out the next student. That would be very expensive.
2) Proof of concept, technology testbed. If these airplanes are out in the wild in any significant numbers, then Airbus get some pretty decent data from that fleet. Think about Beta testing…..
This is where I think it all is. Airbus clearly want to be in the lead with electric technology, but they have a lot of convincing to do. If they can learn in the ‘cheap’ GA market, and then be able to point to a proven safety record in that market, it becomes a little easier sell to airlines. If they sold these aircraft below cost (let’s say €50k) then for a few million, they could have a lot of market research. Blowing 5-10 million on this in subsidising the sales price would be insignificant in terms of the development cost of the next airliner which is measured in billions. This is proabably what it’s all about.
The endurance could be a big problem for training if a runway is blocked for a short time, near the end of the training sortie .Eg light aircraft off runway, requiring to be pushed clear.
And how often does that happen??
Not often, but it did happen to me last weekend. I was only delayed about 10 minutes, and I still had over 2 hours of fuel so no issue.
But if I’d only have 15-20 minutes left when I found out, I’d pretty much have to declare a mayday as soon as I was told!
I am sure the developers will gradually chip away at the endurance, but there is a long way to go.
Late last year I was peripherally involved in something which involved some top people in the electric vehicle business. We spoke about the latest battery technology. There is nothing revolutionary around the corner. There is apparently one technology which is about a 50% improvement on the current best but it disintegrates after about 10 cycles…
So I think electric vehicles will remain a niche for quite a long time. I don’t think anybody wants to move towards road pricing because of the many challenges in e.g. making it tamper-proof, especially on retrofitted installations.
All this electric mobility looks beautiful, but it seems to be either a marketing tool (Toyota Prius and similar) or seeking for the Next Big Thing.
Did you know that the electric vehicles are less fuel efficient than the gas powered cars?
Here are the numbers picked from the internet. Let’s start with the tank full of gas.
The modern car engine has efficiency of about 35%.
The electric motor has efficiency of about 90%.
But to deliver electric power to the motor means:
To generate electricity in a power station – let’s consider a power station running on gas – efficiency around 40%.
Transfer via electric grid – 93%
Storage in batteries – 85%
So – this makes the efficiency of the electric car about 28%.
Utility value – filling up the tank in minutes vs charging for hours
Purchasing and running cost – electric and hybrid cars are typically more expensive. Yes, electricity is cheaper, and when you save enough on running cost to pay off the extra investment, you have to replace the battery and saving is gone.
Energy density of gas vs battery has been discussed already.
And the Prius thing? My diesel powered car has the same fuel consumption like the Toyota Prius. But, to manufacture and waste Prius is more expensive and requires more energy because of the second engine and the battery.
Sorry for being pesimistic.
Most students won’t be learning to fly in a twin. Most twin pilots will want a longer endurance than 75 minutes, or 45 minutes plus VFR reserves. Most atpl QXC’s are longer than 75 minutes, or 45 minutes plus VFR reserves. In it’s current form, this is not a complete package.
Did you know that the electric vehicles are less fuel efficient than the gas powered cars?
Here are the numbers picked from the internet. Let’s start with the tank full of gas.
The modern car engine has efficiency of about 35%.
The electric motor has efficiency of about 90%.
But to deliver electric power to the motor means:
To generate electricity in a power station – let’s consider a power station running on gas – efficiency around 40%.
Transfer via electric grid – 93%
Storage in batteries – 85%
So – this makes the efficiency of the electric car about 28%.
It all depends on how you produce the electricity. In Norway we have 100% clean renewable hydro power. The “efficiency” becomes 79%. Normally there is a mix of thermal, thermonuclear and renewable increasing the efficiency way above 40%. Besides, the fuel in a car has to be produced from the well, then transported to the refinery, then refined and transported again. Those losses also have to be included. A power station can run on raw gas, basically straight from the well, a car cannot, at least not efficiently.
New dual carbon batteries are coming this year apparently. They have the same power density as lithium ion, but can be charged 10 times faster, they can be recharged at least 3000 times and contains no heavy metals. They will not increase the power density, but they are much cheaper and cleaner to produce than current technology, and the usability will greatly increase.
Electric flight is the next step in the evolution of flight. It is better to look at the possibilities than the problems.
So I think electric vehicles will remain a niche for quite a long time. I don’t think anybody wants to move towards road pricing because of the many challenges in e.g. making it tamper-proof, especially on retrofitted installations.
I think we will see very few retrofitted installations. Or, we will see many, but those will not survive or even sell at all. Electric power is enough different from piston engine power so that every purpose built electric aircraft will be superior to a retrofitted one. I’m still confused about the advantages of those electric ducted fans, but they sure look cool and that is probably enough advantage. Besides, making such a configuration with pure piston engine power is totally impractical.
The number one selling car in Norway this year is Nissan Leaf. Tesla S also is in the top 10 somewhere together with the eUp. This is mainly because electric cars have zero taxation of any kind whatsoever while normal cars are loaded with them, but nevertheless, they are no niche anymore here. It will be fun to see what happens in 2017 when this zero taxation policy will end though 
