Emir wrote:
PPR is “don’t land here if I haven’t approved it” and doesn’t have much/anything with conditions of the runway or legal responsibility of the owner for the operations.
Emir, yes, that is the technical definition. In most places though it is more of an automatic approval for the landing request.
Yes, some place do abuse those, but most places don’t and treat the PPR only to understand how many people are actually coming, and if anyone coming at all (and they just close the runway early for the works/holiday/BBQ/etc).
arj1 wrote:
Yes, some place do abuse those
I believe we are mainly discussing these ones.
arj1 wrote:
and they just close the runway early for the works/holiday/BBQ/etc
That’s what NOTAM is for. Few years ago I got several calls from LQMO (one of four international airports in Bosnia and Herzegovina) asking me to move my arrival to earlier than planned because they wanted to close the airport because everybody wanted to go home to watch football game.
LFFK does not ask for PPR although we often get requests to land and park by email.
As one of the token English speakers I am usually asked to respond.
My usual response goes something like this “LFFK is a CAP aerodrome and you are welcome here without asking permission, subject to AIP approach charts and NOTAMs. You are welcome to come and go as you please during the hours of daylight. We have no lights. There is no landing fees or parking fees but we would ask you to fly the circuit responsibly so as not to upset the neighbours and to park in a manner so as not to block other aerodrome users. Please also note if you wish to use the GNSS approach, please contact the address noted in the Instrument approach charts beforehand.”
We have noted that several pilots have arrived and not read the NOTAMs. Some even going so far as to insult workers cleaning up the runways or cutting the grass at the runway edges and the grass runway.
One even landed his Cessna just after our brand new tarmac runway had been laid. It was NOTAMed to allow the surface to set properly.
Fortunately, the tarmac had set well enough to not do any major damage, although the tyre marks are still there several years later.
So does the NOTAM system really work?
I will also point out that the majority of these NOTAM ignorers have not had French as a 1st language. But NOTAMS are written in an International language. I also point out that, that is a majority and even 1 or 2 based pilots have also either not seen (being kind) or more likely not checked NOTAMs.
Emir wrote:
arj1 wrote: Yes, some place do abuse thoseI believe we are mainly discussing these ones.
I’m afraid we’ll always have those – be that abuse of power by AD administration or the police.
It would be nice not to have either of those, but we are talking about the human nature here…
So does the NOTAM system really work?
I will also point out that the majority of these NOTAM ignorers have not had French as a 1st language. But NOTAMS are written in an International language.
Notams work when pilots read them!!
Unfortunately I can’t agree that lack of Notam reading is a foreign visitor problem. We have to close our aerodrome in the winter sometimes due to waterlogging. Usually this coincides with poor weather so there aren’t many incidents initially, but the first sunny weekend will have at least 3 or 4 aeroplanes arrive and its not uncommon for at least one of these aeroplanes to be an instructional flight, which to me is just completely inexcusable…
Regards, SD..
gallois wrote:
LFFK
Just looked it up, looks like a very neat aerodrome! Just what GA needs.
I didn’t say that not reading NOTAMs was a foreign visitor problem. I pointed out that in the majority of infractions, here it has been foreign visitors. I have no idea why and I do find the statistics here, strange. I had thought that maybe it was to do with the fact that we tend to use 1st Olivia now Sofia and SDVFR, but obviously it seems from your experience at your airfield that it might not be the case.
Hugely different mission profiles between local aeroclub traffic, and visitors from other countries.
Other factors too e.g. in certain countries everything changes if you speak the local language.
Remember also that notams were not really taught before about 2005 and anyway were poorly accessible before then. So much depended on whether knowledge of notams was a requirement (practically) to fly somewhere. Today it is because so much critical stuff is in notams e.g. La Rochelle’s infamous 48hr PN for all foreign flights. That won’t affect a French aeroclub flight but will cause a foreigner to get into trouble.
Today’s pilots who go places especially internationally need to brief from
and the proposed “PPR app” is just another thing to deal with. Also it probably won’t incorporate functionality like getting the La Rochelle 48hr PPR, and not just because LR will hardly be interested in signing up to it.
Peter wrote:
Remember also that notams were not really taught before about 2005
What country are you talking about now? Certainly NOTAMs was taught when I first got my PPL in 1984.
Btw, what happened in 2005?
NOTAMs were taught in France at least as far back as 1990.
They were available at the departure airport, the club house or the famous Minitel (although that took forever for a long trip).
