PPR: If you have rats in your house, do you block up the hole from the sewer, or do you write an app for them?

Here’s the perfect example of an abusive PPR use:

Q) LFMM/QFAAP/IV/NBO /A /000/999/4130N00906E
A) LFKF
B) 23/04/07 16:21 C) 23/10/31 23:59
E) AD ACCESSIBILITY : FOR GENERAL AVIATION, PPR 72HR MANDATORY TO AD MANAGING AUTHORITY VIA E-MAIL : FSC.PPR(AT)SUDCORSE.CCI.FR

As one can see, the Notam’s duration, as for most destinations in Corsica, is basically thru the Summer, and high season.

Being invited by a friend who rented a villa in the region of Porto Vecchio, I set off applying for landing and parking for 2 nites on the mid-July week-end. All correspondence took place in French, which I speak/write fluently having attended French schools in my youth. Luckily, I started the whole procedure about 15 days ahead of the scheduled trip.

My first email contained my request, details of the airplane (like the massive wingspan of 7m and the ability to be pushed back off the concrete into the grass for tie-down) and occupants.
3 days later, no answer, so an enquiry as to if my request was received was sent. Another 3 days later, still no answer, so I called them. Which revealed… nothing. The only thing I was told is that no PPR was granted thru the phone, but only thru writing.
Another query mail was sent a couple of hours later and then produced an answer with a list of details to be answered. All of those (MTOM, SOB, type, etc, etc) had already been noted in my initial application, but well, I filled the requested data as requested, and in the order requested.
Again, no word for 2 days. Another query from my side then produced a response within 2 hours, permission denied! I have to admit that my return email suddenly lost all the courtesy demonstrated in the previous exchanges

I was finally able to arrange for permission to land a the restricted field of Ghisonaccia LFKG, which also involved its share of work, but resulted in pleasant contacts and an authorisation, and last but not least, hangar space which was most welcome in the furnace of the period, thanks Ghisonaccia

The following shot was taken prior turning back to land at Ghisonaccia… I just could not help it but go and overfly LFKF on this Friday 14/07/2023 to have a look at the parking situation. Not sure what you guys can make out, but I see an Air Corsica Airbus of some kind on the main apron. Now looking at the easterly GA apron, I spot what looks like a Sabreliner, a PC-12, a Falcon of some kind, and 2 unidentified SEPs on the last row.

Now, I will certainly agree that this around midday on the Friday, and that the situation could look entirely different on the following Saturday and Sunday.
What I will point out though, is the grand arrogance which has developed over the bigger airports in Corsica. I have been flying to Corsica since… well since I started flying, which > 40 years ago, and this comprises more than one trip and stay at LFKF. ATC has not changed much in this time, still friendly and helpful. But the airports have now fully set their sights on cheap tourism, letting the island being invaded by hordes of backpackers, and I’m not sure that is the right heading to steer to…

PS
Maybe I should have stated flying in with something more prestigious, with say > 20T MTOM or more

Just as a matter of interest when do Brit pilot’s decide that on Saturday or Sunday they might fancy a trip to France?
1 hour before they take off, 2hours, the Friday, midweek or the Monday.
I don’t mean the final decision because that depends on weather or the aircraft state and availability. I simply mean the first thought. “How about a trip to France at the weekend?”

@Silvaire what you say about calling up an airfield to ask about the state of the runway is what I was referring to “pilot’s responsibility” is that PPR or PNR ? We used to think of it as good airmanship.
Which then brings up Dublin"s point 2. If there is no one at the airfield and by a phone which is highly likely on small French aerodromes and possibly the same in Norway and Ireland how does the message get out? Club members might well know that the runway is waterlogged and stay away so there is no one qualified to create a NOTAM.
Peter I I can’t answer your question re Caen being PPR I have never had a problem. I just give them a quick ring as I know there are certain times when they’d rather you just didn’t turn up because all staff would be tied up dealing witha bunch of CATs for an hour or 2.
PN is different from PPR in that you are just saying you are coming and when. You are not asking for permission.

Whenever you fly somewhere, you always fly there and land there at your risk.

I wish. But in practice it doesn’t always work that way in Britain.

At Oxenhope, for example, a prat in a Jodel (which was based there) knew that the first hundred yards of runway 24 were waterlogged and coned-off as unusable. So he landed there regardless and fetched up with wheels pointing skyward. AAIB report.

The pilot and passenger were seriously injured and sued the airfield owner who faced the prospect of paying to settle the claim or paying to fight it (and possibly losing anyway).

It’s a risk which all UK airfield owners face. One strategy is not to give “permission” to anyone, or at least to non-based pilots, but I’m not convinced that that would deter an insurer from trying it on.

gallois wrote:

I simply mean the first thought. “How about a trip to France at the weekend?”

Often quite a long way beforehand, sometimes several weeks. Particularly in summer when the weather is more reliable.

@Silvaire what you say about calling up an airfield to ask about the state of the runway is what I was referring to “pilot’s responsibility” is that PPR or PNR ? We used to think of it as good airmanship

PPR means Prior Permission Required, and PNR means Prior Notice Required, neither of which is the same as a pilot gathering planning info at his discretion, for his use. If the difference is not clear, I’d suggest that is in itself indicative of a problem.

Which then brings up Dublin"s point 2. If there is no one at the airfield and by a phone which is highly likely on small French aerodromes and possibly the same in Norway and Ireland how does the message get out?

In the US it is by NOTAM, word of mouth or not at all. Most airports in the US are unstaffed and either way in the real world it makes no difference to safety at some little grass field to which little planes fly. Pilots figure out what to do and exercise options. Maybe they go somewhere else that also requires no PPR.

PPR is a solution in search of a problem. An app to address PPR is a solution to automate a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Layers of self perpetuating nonsense that actually creates safety problems by reducing flexibility.

The solution has to be to unwind the mess, not to wind it tighter.

@Dan

Unfortunately, that issue with Figari is „old hat“. Since about 2019, it has become almost impossible to get parking permission there in summer, and at least very hit and miss in all other seasons. The fact that they don‘t even communicate properly makes it even worse.

As you know, the solution is usually in small aerodromes nearby, like here. Until the day when there just isn‘t a small aerodrome nearby…

They have four SEP parking positions (the one is the corner is essentially for refuelling only), which are likely always kept for some close friends…

Jan Brill put is nicely (about 10 years ago) when he wrote somewhere that „when people start painting yellow lines on the apron, they seem to instantly lose their brain“….

Where did you clear customs?

boscomantico wrote:

„when people start painting yellow lines on the apron, they seem to instantly lose their brain“

Good one, and talking yellow, goes in pair with the hi-vis requirement on small fields

Customs were done at Milano Bresso LIMB, some online form filling and paperwork, but a good affordable place for a quick turnaround nonetheless.

I almost guessed so. So few decent places in Italy for you guys from Switzerland (as @Frans will confirm). But Bresso is a welcome exception which, despite being small GA only, has somehow retained their customs status, probably due to some important individual that is based there.

@Silvaire that is entirely my point people getting all het up about PPR PNR or asking is the runway ok. Sometimes it makes sense to ask, sometimes PPR makes sense and sometimes it makes no sense at all. But do we have a God given right to fly and land wherever we please without any thought for others. If we think that we shouldn’t complain when people put in rules as they have the same God given right to say “sod off” we don’t want you here, our neighbours don’t want you here. If you want your freedom we want to able to charge you a VIP rate otherwise you are just a nuisance.

@Peter you post a NOTAM for Caen which simply says if you want to park we need you yo PPR this summer..If you don’t like it go elsewhere which doesn’t demand it.

As for PN I believe a large proportion of Brit pilots and French pilots going the opposite direction decide to try to fly to each others country at least a few days before a flight. As a French pilot we immediately send a PN to the appropriate airport. If need to cancel or delay last minute we fire off a cancellation or delay message. If any of us are a bit concerned that the PN hasn’t been received or are not confident that the right person would receive our delay or cancel message we tend to ask in our PN email, which usually elicits a reply which in turn is confirmation that they have received your PN.
Why do foreign pilots complicate matters in flying to France..If you are not happy don’t come the number of Brits deciding not to fly to Franve because their freedom is being hampered will have no.consequence on some 99% of French airfields. Foreign GA is just not that important to the French GA scene. Sorry to be so blunt but its true.🙃