Can we have some women to discuss this topic?
I am puzzled when it’s mostly men talking about lack of women…reminds me of the chat with bartenders from Essex pubs 
aart wrote:
This may be changing. Not based on scientific studies, but just by observing my daughter and her husband and their fiends I feel that many young kids are being brought up in a ‘neutral’ way in terms of clothing, books and toys.
Observing the same thing.
LeSving wrote:
I don’t think society has much to do with it. The difference of interest starts way before they can talk.
From what I heard there is no „natural“ difference concerning interest.
Social conditioning starts even before birth during pregnancy, via naming, expectations (girls are „softer“, boys are „tough“) and reaction of social environment („Finally a girl and I as grandma can buy cute pink dresses for the baby“).
AFAICT there is no woman in this discussion (yet).
However, even if the woke brigade wants us to believe otherwise, men and women are not the same. For starters, one can bear children, the other – not so much. Nothing to do with society.
As for aviation – I’m not sure at all this is overly technical. Many pilots, myself included, have absolutely zero, zilch, nada interest in tinkering with their machines. It’s the flying that counts. If I had to get my hands more dirty than I do on a preflight, I’d give up aviation in a heartbeat. Of course you need to understand how things work, but beyond that we have A&Ps. The main other thing that’s really important for aviation is meteorology and that is hardly a male domain.
From my perspective (I’m female pilot – hobby aviator, mid-thirties, started flying 2 years ago, PPL with ATPL theory done, now doing IR and aiming for CPL/FI) the difference is the 1500 hours requirement to apply for an airline job in the US. This keeps female pilots much longer in GA, usually as all sorts of CFIs. It means even during introductory flights, open-hangar days or community gatherings young girls are able to see female aviators around or at flight school. Here in central Europe usually those few female pilots are aiming for airline job and have been dreaming of jet pilot career ever since and they are leaving grass strips as soon as they get their 200h CPL.
The other aspect might be the financial part – GA flying is to some extend expensive and in Europe the gender inequality in salaries are still present. Even when you have good job and can afford flight hours people might judge you that you should not spend that much on your hobby and rather buy your kid a better toys or whatever else to support household/husband/family. I don’t know any other female who would be willing to literally burn 2000-2500€ to fly Cessna Euro-trips and repeat it several times per year (I don’t have kids and I’m proud to say that I’m selfish and I’ll enjoy life the way I like it)😊
And lastly I would say is the masculine environment which might be intimidating. I’ve never experienced any verbal harassment or sexist jokes at an airport when flying in the US but experienced such “jokes” from local pilots after landing already during my first solo x-country flight in Czech Republic. On the other hand it happened a few times that I was told that I don’t need to pay a landing fee because of my gender, negotiated “female” discounts with handlers upfront on international airports or got kudos from airliners on radio when seeing my landing while holding short 😊
I love the technical as well as the “soft” part of flying, curious about airplane systems, have huge piece of ATR in my bedroom but have no idea and interest how my car works for example. I never had a female role model or anyone in my family as aviator, got interested in aviation-fetish due to my frequent flyer status – traveling by passenger plane has been big part of my job and necessary. I couldn’t convince any of my female friends to start flying (although they like to fly as passengers and take selfies) but 2 of my male friends signed up for PPL after I took them for sightseeing flight.
For starters, one can bear children, the other – not so much. Nothing to do with society.
And where is the connection to less female pilots in GA from that? If there were any, why are the numbers so different (eg between eu/us) and not universal? Pregnancy is a temporary condition and shouldn’t preclude from flying (I know you didn’t imply that 🤣).
I‘d diplomatically say that for some reasons there have historically been less women in flying of all sorts and therefore there are less role models/peers as multipliers and young girls think, for example, „hmm, all pilots in this club are old males, maybe this isn’t for me, I’ll rather take up some other activity“.
@ani raised some good points.
I don’t think the 1500hr rule has much to do with it. Costs and gender paygap more so.
GA flying in the us is more diverse, egalitarian and attainable. More possibilities, less costs. More acceptance as well. „The sky is blue not pink“ kind of discrimination is prob40 more unacceptable overall in the us vs eu.
Margrit Waltz mentioned in a documentary she got into ferry flying as no airline hired female pilots back then.
Getting more women to fly GA in europe would be a chance to fight the steady decline… eg everyone on EuroGA with kids could host an excursion to the airport or hold a talk for classmates.
Snoopy wrote:
From what I heard there is no „natural“ difference concerning interest.
Well I have had 3 kids, now grown ups (6 when counting my second wife, who has been a teacher for ground school children for 20 years). I, and every other parent have “heard” that we are all alike. Boys and girls are the same. I, and every other parent have experienced something very different when putting that “wisdom” to test. Not all boys like to play with cars and planes either, but for those who like it, I would say 90% are boys. Sports is another big interest among kids. There is no difference there between boys and girls, and you could also say that sports and piloting have some common factors, at least in technically advanced flying like competition aerobatics and military flying. Competition aerobatics is perhaps most closely related to gymnastics, yet few women are engaged in competition aerobatics, but perhaps more than with “typical” GA. More women are also flying gliders than “typical” GA. Skydiving, “lots” of women
Ani wrote:
the difference is the 1500 hours requirement to apply for an airline job in the US. This keeps female pilots much longer in GA, usually as all sorts of CFIs
I think the statistics show that the fraction of female pilots is larger in the US, and this goes for all pilots?, not just private GA. That 1500h would for sure boost GA though.
Anyway, what you are saying seems to be in line with my experience. Most women need a “goal” for flying, something to aim for. IMO GA and GA communities are all about the joy of flying, the joy of aircraft and aviation in the largest sense. I seriously doubt it’s possible to really experience that joy without having your own plane to tinker with, to fix and upgrade etc. Lots of people in Europe rent planes, but most of them only fly 2 hours with an instructor each other year. Professional flying is different. You don’t tinker and fix a B-737 without proper education, the airline would never allow it, it’s not your job. My club have 200 members. Of them, not counting instructors, perhaps 10-20 fly on a more regular basis than 2 h each other year. Of those 20, only 5 (max) fly more than say 50 h each year. For someone who just want to fly and not bother with any of the other stuff, a club is great. The thing is, when all is done, very few actually enjoy this. For the few who enjoy it, it’s great, but those who have their own planes fly a whole lot more, and there are more of them.
I don’t see any difference between flying (GA), boating and MC. It’s the same thing, only different vehicles.
Clipperstorch wrote:
the surprising finding that men and women are indeed different.
That “finding” does not explain the gender equality paradox.
