RobertL18C wrote:
audio panel am planning a Garmin GMA345
don’t recall what kind of airplane you have, but having a single COM as well, my life is perfect sans audio panel. Music/phone calls/message beeps etc. come thru the Bose bluetooth. The only intercom improvement will be direct access to volume & squelch. As for the USB, I just installed a dual Garmin one (had a very good discount via ACS), and those are available for different USB formats.
For serious IFR flying, as in identifying the ILS (if anyone here is still doing it…), eventually a VOR or DME (does that stuff still exists at all 
), marker beacon, or a four or larger seater, audio panel yes. For simple VFR airplane, not necessary, really.
Better spend the money flying 
Just my 2ct…
Here we go again… Like I said… Avionics and avionics
And few people actually going somewhere past the block.
Peter wrote:
Here we go again… Like I said… Avionics and avionicsAnd few people actually going somewhere past the block.
I think the main reason is that on older planes in the EASA/CAA all you could do is to upgrade the avionics – everything else is major pain as it requires an STC and costs a fortune.
You get a good return (of your money) on avionics and engines if you ever have to sell the aeroplane. Other items not so much.
WilliamF wrote:
Other items not so much
I’ve read elsewhere that retrofitting a Turbo into a Cirrus was increasing resale value by more than the investment.
To the initial question: what do you have against glass in the cockpit? I think the “bang for the bucks” is not too bad. You gain (potentially) a lot of situational awareness, what is most important of all when flying single pilot IFR.
Regarding the “few pilots going anywhere” where’s the difference in, say , long range tanks, turbo retrofit etcpp? However, you see glass from the very first second, whereas a Turbo and additional stuff only pays off in certain situations.
Another thing is, that you can have quite some nice installation in the regime of 10-20 aviation units. I don’t think that there are lots of stuff you could add to your plane for the same (comparatively low) investment.
I think the main reason is that on older planes in the EASA/CAA all you could do is to upgrade the avionics – everything else is major pain as it requires an STC and costs a fortune.
Yes – a big factor. But all that has changed in the last 10 years is AML STCs for avionics. The “performance upgrades” have not got harder, unless “installers looking for easy work and telling others to go away” counts
I can see people are pouring money into channels which are being lubricated by installers, because for 99% of owners using a company is the only route.
You get a good return (of your money) on avionics and engines if you ever have to sell the aeroplane
That has not been the case for all the years – until a year or two ago with today’s silly prices. I can’t see it being sustained, with all the long term high-mileage flyers who have packed it all up in the last year or two.
You gain (potentially) a lot of situational awareness, what is most important of all when flying single pilot IFR.
That’s true for really old kit – say 1980. It isn’t true for late-1990s like a KLN94+KMD550.
I think people should spend their money on avgas and get some tangible enjoyment out of their plane, instead of leaving it at an avionics shop for months at a time, as so many are doing (try to organise fly-ins and you quickly find out ).
Also a lot of people sell up fast after pouring 5 digits into avionics. Why? Because they haven’t flown anywhere for months, and lost interest. Most people who did a lot of flying over years and then gave up flying, tell me they don’t miss it. I can understand that… unless you organise this hobby for a decent level of reward, the hassle factor is too high. But this also happens after your plane sat in the avionics shop for a few months. You find other things in life in the meantime.
Peter wrote:
I think people should spend their money on avgas and get some tangible enjoyment out of their plane
Absolutely agree on that. I put a deadline for myself to NOT invest in any upgrade prior to three years of ownership.
Lots of people love to invest in things they love. You see that with houses, mobile homes, and … planes. There are those who use the items and those who love the items. And very vew do both at the same time
But @Peter I still don’t get the point you’re aiming at. If one prefers to have his investments in whatever he wants, be it avionics, and enjoys this, why point at him? What’s wrong with that? Would we have the same discussion here with all terrain vehicles (4×4) which are NEVER used off the road? To what use is wasting 15 or 20 liters per 100 km in a car you never use the way it is intended to? And lots would not dare to even use it offroad, because it could get scratched anywhere.
So I think anyone of us is free to use his or her plane in the way (s)he wants. Not?
Probably what I am getting at is that so many people spend so much on kit and then sell up, never to be seen again.
And the less they fly the more they spend on kit.
Sure you can spend 1.2k on a phone, but – apart from wasting a bit of your life sorting out the apps which didn’t transfer properly – you have had the continuous use of a phone. Same with a car. I think “T72 tanks” are a terrible waste of money and fuel but at least you can drive them.
The reason I started, almost 20 years ago, on my “GA promotion path”, like this and in 2012 EuroGA, is because I was seeing so many give up, and in most cases never having got much fun out of it.
And now more than ever (of actual or potential long term flyers) are giving up, while spending more money than ever on “kit”. I am sure the two are connected. No flying for months → the end.
No flying for months → the end.
I tried to quit a few years ago… sold my beautiful Falco, and stated „I’ve had it with SEP flying“. Friends laughed at me „hey, you’re not gonna be gone long“. I’d just had too much of aviation.
Of course I kept flying the big iron at work, and RC during my free time
PS
Lasted the whole of 6 months before I started borrowing the beautiful freshly restored Jodel D11 of a friend/colleague of mine, buying my next airplane shortly thereafter. Gotta be sick, doctor, ain’t this contagious?
@Peter, I think you are conflating two trends here:
1) a decline – real or perceived – in flying activity
2) avionics upgrades
They have nothing to do with each other.
1) is, IMO, mostly due to the fact that the generation who saw GA as a hobby, IOW largely the Baby Boomers, are slowly but surely aging out of aviation. Either by losing the medical or simply not having the funds anymore to fly, or a combination of both plus family pressures.
2) is a different beast entirely. First of all, glass has become much cheaper in recent years. Second, the younger generation of pilots have all grown up with computers and simply don’t want to deal with crappy steam gauges anymore. I can see that clearly by the dynamics in our club. Thirdly, while you may not get back the full cost of the avionics, selling an airplane with steam gauges demands a steep discount, tendency increasing. Therefore, if you want to sell, you almost have to do at least some upgrade, even if you don’t plan on flying the plane anymore. I think this is what you may be seeing. Lastly, I would certainly not call glass avionics eye candy. It’s really a world of difference and I know what I prefer.
