Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

New year resolution: try not to die in a D-reg aircraft flying in UK airspace (how to deal with stupid public officials, etc)

Does this applies to births as well? giving birth in D-reg (or N-reg) give you Gemran (US) birth certificate & passport?

Not interested in any of the two citizenships (also I think I missed my shot, as I am born already) but surely someone would be interested in this concept: “an aircraft carry piece of land from the country of it’s reg”

Last Edited by Ibra at 28 Dec 14:24
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Nationality when born on an aircraft is entirely up to the states which might grant nationality, which could be the state of registration and the state(s) of he parents and ancestors, and/or the state where the aircraft is at the time.

In German law, the place of birth does not matter at all, you are a citizen if one of your parents is German (with some limitations for second-generation non-residents) or born to a long-term resident of Germany.

The UK is similar except a bit more generous for children of long-term residents and children which live in the UK for the first 10 years of their lives.

For the US, an additional factor to the nationality of the parents is that a person born on US territory is a citizen regardless of the parents’ nationality, which for an aircraft means within US airspace, and for a ship the US territorial waters. The registration of the aircraft does not matter here.

There is an international convention to give the child the nationality of the nation the aircraft is registered in if the child otherwise would be stateless but even that needs to be translated into national law

Last Edited by Cobalt at 28 Dec 15:28
Biggin Hill

Thanks Cobalt, I learned something new !

Last Edited by Ibra at 28 Dec 15:57
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

@Ibra, just in case you wanted to be born again…

I had an idle moment and looked at what happens on death. UK law is clear – for aircraft and ships, the state of registry must issue the death certificate. In German law, it is also explicit for ships that the state of registry of the ship has to issue it, but while that part mentions ships explicitly, it is entirely silent about aircraft.

There is nothing worse than a bureaucrat following rules, except for a bureaucrat who has no rules to follow, I guess.

Last Edited by Cobalt at 28 Dec 16:01
Biggin Hill

just in case you wanted to be born again…

There is always someone who has a metric for that
Although the rankings looks dodgy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index

Last Edited by Ibra at 28 Dec 16:21
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

The original quality-of-life index was released in 1988. It included a “philistine factor” for a lack of culture and a “yawn index” which measured how boring a country might be despite all its other advantages.

So originally this was probably a bit tongue-in-cheek, but looking at their criteria, they seem to have lost their sense of humour along the way.

In my (admittedly rather limited) experience of living in different countries the key factor, other than being economically and physically safe, is how you get along with the people and their mindset and if you find communities you can engage with. And that is highly subjective. And no amount of women in the legislature (which is one of their criteria) will make any difference to that.

Biggin Hill

What a joke! I can understand that Scandinavians like Scandinavia, but has anyone looked at the climate? And putting Belgium above France, really? Have they ever been to Brussels?

I love the idea that difference from 14 degrees is bad. I mean sure, who would ever want it to be warmer than that? Hawaii eat your heart out…

The only possible conclusion is that this was done by Swedes, or maybe Norwegians.

LFMD, France

they seem to have lost their sense of humour along the way.

A lot !

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

A Brit neighbour had the Brit mother in law over for a month’s holiday. She was 90. They didn’t know that her passport had less than 6 months left to expiry (I think it was 6 months). Anyway Ryan Air refused to let her board because of this lack of tlime before expiry. So they got onto the passport office, duly sent off all the appropriate forms etc including a cheque, even though she was entitled to a free passport because of her age. A letter came back telling her she needed to apply to the passport office in Liverpool because she was entitled to the free passport. They letter said (and you couldn’t make it up) they were going to keep the money for administration fees.
So they duly applied to Liverpool, who.wrote back saying that because she was out of rhe country needed to apply to a Consulate in France. They needed certain details and were given a telephone number. On ringing that number, they realised that the UK Government had outsourced this work and the first thing they were asked for was a credit card number. When asked why? they were told that they charged £8 I think he said for information and advice. Our neighbour asked “how do I know you can answer the question?” After much toing and froing he agreed to pay the fee and was told how to get the form he needed" He could get the form from the UK consulate in Paris. So he duly got the form, filled it in and returned it to the consulate.
Three days later they got a call saying it.was the wrong form. Anyway, finally the right forms were sent of to the place. This process had started in April and come September they had still not received her passport. The authorities in the UK said they could only deal with the Consulate who put in the form. So our neighbour rang the Consulate. They were very sympathetic and said they would chase it up. This was on the Monday. On the following Sunday a very distraught young man from the Consulate arrived clutching the passport. He had driven the 400 -500 kilometres that morning. He was full of apologies and muttered something about it having been misplaced. My neighbour said he felt so sorry for him as he was obviously very junior. The mother in law never got chance to use the passport but she did see it, the day before she died, on the Monday.
After getting the death certificate from the doctor in the next village, they rang the UK to register the death of one of their citizens. They didn’t want to know, and so her death is not recorded in any UK ledger.
My neighbour often wonders what would have happened if he had not informed the pensions office separately and kept receiving the money.

France

The case is simple: Chicago convention states clearly that countries keep their sovereignty (surprise!) even if they allow airplanes from other countries to fly over their territory. The law of this country is applicable. Only over open water territory (or Antarctica) that does not belong to a specific country, the law of the flag country is applicable.

Therefore as long as there is no dispute that the plane was in UK airspace, it is clearly the UK responsibility to handle the death certificate.

Germany
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top