cpt_om_sky wrote:
answer to the question wether it might be “somehow legal” to takeoff vfr and then go ifr at some point
or something like that: unclear.
this should and would not mean that you cannot do a flightplan Z (vfr to ifr)
doing the routine procedure of an ifr pickup etc. finally being cleared by traffic control to proceed ifr.
this to my knowledge is perfectly legal and common in austria.
it is the (theoretical) question:
if you cannot go out ifr from an vfr only airport
and if the legal procedure of going from vfr to ifr beginns with the request for ifr pickup,
could there be anything in between like an if(r) procedure in imc that could have some legal foundation?
or is it clear and straight:
vfr out of an vfr only airport.
you do your ifr pickup procedure when time and everything else is right. finally you get your ifr clearance. period.
My understanding was in airspace G if vis is >1500 it’s legal to take off VFR, then fly ifr in imc. „IFR pickup“ only required before entering controlled airspace.
That will be my understanding in Austria as well, also,
- According to Austrian AIP, you will need runways lights for IFR takeoffs with visibility is less than 5km, maybe a legacy rule that is no longer consistent with “SERA VFR takeoff” which can be done with visibility > 1.5km in Golf without lights
- You can’t file I-FPL out of LIOH, not sure if this matters legally? AFAIK, France & UK allow this from load of “airfields without IAP”
Do you have to file a flight plan to fly IFR in class G in Austria?
My second question is when and how do you open your flight plan or doesn’t it matter if you are flying class G in Austria?
as far as my actual information is:
to fly ifr (also in g) (legally in austria) you need an ifr clearance by traffic control.
two possibilities:
you go out of an ifr airport with your ifr flightplan,
or
you do your ifr-pickup coming out of vfr (getting an ifr clearance and your ifr flightplan by that).
(if you have been (legally) without flightplan in vfr before doing an ifr pickup should not be a problem.)
but as yet i could not find any experienced (legal) specialist,
who could tell me, wether the possibilities snoopy and ibra mentioned above
could be legally corroborated or wether there had been such a case and a possible
verdict and/or a result of an investigation affirming it.
cpt_om_sky wrote:
to fly ifr (also in g) (legally in austria) you need an ifr clearance by traffic control.
An ATC clearance in G? How is that possible… it’s uncontrolled airspace.
not getting an atc clearance in g. but going thru g on ifr.
look also at mooney_drivers comments/fndings in the depository.
cpt_om_sky wrote:
to fly ifr (also in g) (legally in austria) you need an ifr clearance by traffic control.
If anyone does IFR on clearance in Golf (even in cruise), worth getting more details from them:
- What is an IFR “clearance” in Golf? what they will do on lost comms in VMC? or in IMC?
- What is service they get: FIS service by FIS unit? or FIS service by ATC unit? or ATC service by ATC unit?
- What is ATS role: give heading? give direct? or separation? say from terrain, traffic, wake, clouds, devils, UFOs…
Don’t be surprised if the more they talk about the need for IFR on clearance in Golf, the more likely they are clueless on what it means for them…strictly, speaking you “only” need IFR clearance for controlled aerodrome & controlled airspace otherwise you are on “flight information”, do you need clearance to receive flight information?
i guess the legal way of arguements in austria would be the other way around:
to fly legally ifr you need and ifr clearance/flight plan.
if you do not have an ifr clearance /flight plan you cannot fly legally ifr (not matter where you are).
Snoopy wrote:
My understanding was in airspace G if vis is >1500 it’s legal to take off VFR, then fly ifr in imc. „IFR pickup“ only required before entering controlled airspace.
could you please explain in refference with ibras arguements above ?!
i guess the legal way of arguements in austria would be the other way aorund:to fly legally ifr you need and ifr clearance/flight plan.
You can flip the words on legality as you wish but it’s not an excuse for ignorance on what are the operational implications, if we suppose such clearance exists?
AFAIK, being on IFR clearance in Golf is the same as flying without one, except you will have a guaranteed “information service” and further “airspace acess MAY get arranged”, for the rest you have to take care of yourself, starting with reading en-route NOTAMS and looking out of the window in VMC as these are 100% PIC responsibilities in Golf not ATC
You can ask any ATC when you are IFR on clearance in Golf if they own the responsibility when you fly through a restricted NOTAMS area? I recall last time they were not even aware of it, so I had to breifly switch the frequency…
Unless someone knows things better and can offer more insights on some “Deconfliction Service” while IFR in Golf inside Austria (still FIS where you own all separations but you get IFR vectors) but that is an aberration…
