France, or indeed most countries in Europe AFAICT, does not use the term “port of entry”. What it has is an entry in the AIP for each airport, called “police” (French-speak for Immigration") and “customs”.
Brussels has published a list of “ports of entry”; it has been posted here many times, but It usually seems to be out of date. It was out of date for ages after France withdrew Immigration from ~100 airports some years ago…
The one country which uses the term is Greece, but they confuse people with stuff like LGKC (do a search here) which is listed as a POE, and the AIP says it has Immigration and Customs, but this is largely bogus, and basically LGKC is a POE only for schengen…
confirms my carefulness on this topic. Even if the law is on our side, customs officers could still make our lives pretty hard if they think something ‘else’.
I agree. My view remains is that this could cause so much hassle and unheaval in the cosy world of Customs officials that they will do all they can to find a way around it.
Peter wrote:
I agree. My view remains is that this could cause so much hassle and unheaval in the cosy world of Customs officials that they will do all they can to find a way around it.
I was indeed unaware of this regulation and have confirmed in writing (on the 29th of September of this year) by a senior French customs official with the additional title (in French – Referent en matiere de controles transfrontalieres) referent in matters of cross-border controls that the crossing still needs to happen via an International aiport.
This was the literal answer I got to my request.
L’aérodrome de Bellegarde n’ayant pas le statut d’aéroport international de l’Union, vous ne pouvez pas effectuer de trajet directement entre un territoire situé en dehors de l’union douanière et la France par ce type d’aérodrome. Vous devrez, à l’aller, comme au retour, faire une halte à l’aéroport d’Annecy-Meythet pour un éventuel contrôle.
Since Bellegarde aerodrome does not have the status of Union international airport, you cannot make a journey directly between a territory located outside the customs union and France via this type of aerodrome. You will have to stop at Annecy-Meythet airport for a possible check on the outward journey, as well as on the return.
Peter wrote:
I have dropped a note asking for clarifications, will report back…
LeSving wrote:
Are there no such similar regulations for Swiss customs ? Can you land anywhere in Switzerland when crossing the boarder?
No! You need to land at a customs airfield / airport and in most cases you need PPR to do that. However, a lot of Swiss airfields have provisions for this. So you can fly from almost everywhere within Schengen (as this is about customs, anyone else needs immigration) with the due process observed on every airfield which offers customs. But not on any airfield which does not.
Frans wrote:
Just for not presenting your luggage?!
I’ve had a similar situation on an other airfield with resident customs where I forgot to pass their counter on the way out. I did not have baggage at all, but it was clearly the procedure that outbound and inbound I had to pass them. In that case, I forgot due to some other hassle and actually landed back due to the destination closing on me. After landing he fined me initially much higher but settled on 100 CHF in the end.
Well LFHN, you didn‘t copy your question here, so the reply means very little.
Anyway, it is not surprising that officials don‘t know anything of this yet. It will take some time.
It sounds more like a reply given in the time before the change of regulation…
boscomantico wrote:
Well LFHN, you didn‘t copy your question here, so the reply means very little.
Sure, my question was simply if I need to use a customs airfield (LFLP in this case) for a flight to Zurich and back for a meeting. The reply was on September 29th of this year for a flight on the 30th which I have commented on here and written up the entry into the airport database.
Frans wrote:
Flyingfish wrote:And just last year (2020) 100 Swiss francs by Lausanne customs for attempting to depart TO a transit destination outside Schengen without presenting our luggage to Swiss customs. I repeat: Outbound
Just for not presenting your luggage?! That’s something completely new for me! I never “present” my luggage at the customs office on Swiss airports, when I have nothing special to declare. On customs airports like LSZB, LSZR, LSGS or LSZA, I just exit or enter the airport and expect that customs officers will meet up, in case they want to check. Otherwise (if nobody is there), I assume that it is all OK, because I use a full customs airport. Regarding other airfields: I comply with the PNR times, forms and regulations. But if customs doesn’t show up at ETD (prior departure) or ETA (post arrival), I might assume (at least in Switzerland), that they are not interested for a check. Maybe Lausanne (LSGL) is a special case?
Let me clarify this:
We were on our way from Lausanne (LSGL) Switzerland to Santorini, Greece.
Our refuel stopover was LDDU Dubrovnik which is non-Schengen.
I duly declared the flight (PNR) to customs using the appropriate form and of course the destination in the form was consistent with the FPL
We picked up the plane at the Airbase maintenance facility which is approximately 1 Km away from the main terminal.
We had nothing to declare (remember this was an outbound flight!) and loaded our personal luggage in the plane.
Then we started up and I explicitly radioed “taxiing from Airbase to main apron for customs purposes”.
Upon arrival at the apron, we waited until departure time as declared. AFIS radioed us we should shut down and go to the customs desk.
The customs officers gave us hell for “not going through the main terminal with our luggage” and as we tried to argue our case they literally got hysterical about us flying to “non-Schengen”… as if this was some kind of infernal destination.
They fined us CHF 100 although we had nothing to declare, our paperwork was correct, we had waited for them at the main apron.
The fault they accused us of was that we did not drag our luggage physically past them BEFORE putting it in the plane.
They considered access to the apron from anything but the main terminal a customs violation…
They got really embarrassed when they found out that the actual destination was Schengen and that LDDU was only a refueling stop. Murmured something about “too late now”…
I asked my passenger to stay calm and just paid the fine and got on.
My priorities were:
- avoidance of the emotional escalation that goes along with this kind of mess and would have effectively made me unfit to fly .
- making it before sunset to Santorini.
@Peter: thank you for your appreciation. I believe it is our duty as pilots to share the stories of our errors and mishaps, not just the boasting or the GoPro footage.
While I am very annoyed at the totally unfair Lausanne customs story, I have only myself to blame for the other one I mentioned: 1500€ fine for flying into a non-customs airport in France.
Hopefully somebody else will make good use of both pieces of information.
Especially the Lausanne departure thing is very tricky. I knew that customs were literally “setting traps” for pilots attempting to depart before the time stated in their customs declaration, but I had no clue that they would fine us for going through the “wrong door” to meet them …
Now we are all warned…
I knew that customs were literally “setting traps” for pilots attempting to depart before the time stated in their customs declaration
That is exactly what the police were doing at Avignon. They stood there watching me and made a huge fuss at the last minute.
Thanks a lot for sharing this! A very valuable lesson for many of us. Even those who know these things sometimes can fall into a trap.
Flyingfish wrote:
The fault they accused us of was that we did not drag our luggage physically past them BEFORE putting it in the plane.
They considered access to the apron from anything but the main terminal a customs violation…
Actually that is the procedure just about every where in Switzerland. There have been problems with maintenance flights, where people went to the workshop and neglected to get their luggage and themselves past a valid customs point. Some maintenance organisations have good contacts and if you are lucky, they can call them and ask them to come by, which some will do.
Lausanne is very lucky to actually have non-schengen customs and immigration… And the threat of removal of those facilities if people step out of line is always there.
Flyingfish wrote:
They got really embarrassed when they found out that the actual destination was Schengen and that LDDU was only a refueling stop.
That only means they don’t know their job. Customs has NOTHING to do with Schengen. And it does not matter if your final destination is Schengen again, also for immigration purposes, even though normally they would not care too much about departure but on arrival.
Flyingfish wrote:
My priorities were:
- avoidance of the emotional escalation that goes along with this kind of mess and would have effectively made me unfit to fly .
- making it before sunset to Santorini.
You did the absolutely right thing. Customs have the capability of delaying you for hours. And, if it goes to the higher instance, 100 francs won’t buy you the first 5 minutes of your lawyer. Customs will impose fines upwards of 1000 Francs without even thinking, if you get them thinking, it can be anything. Apart, customs pretty much can hold your property (airplane, car, baggage) hostage. The more they see that you are in a hurry, the larger is their power. At least in Switzerland, they are bound by laws and can’t simply fine you into their own pocket…. heaven help you if you fall foul of customs agents in countries where the main part of the salary of a customs guy is what he extorts from his “clients”. And that exists… in Europe.
