Looking at level of incompatibility of some countries with EU principles and law implementations (Croatia included) I often wonders how it still holds 
petakas wrote:
One new thing they also added was the page itself being available as PDF for download at the bottom so pilots can have it available off line.
Great, thanks!
T28 wrote:
A completely dumb statement since Switzerland is not part of the Customs Union and can carry as many customs controls as it pleases without being in contravention of bilateral agreements or Schengen.
Yes, absolutely correct. Re-reading section 13 of the AOPA Hellas guide, it is clear that Greece falls in the same situation with respect to flow of people and goods as Switzerland. Although Greece is in the EU and Switzerland is not, Greece and Switzerland are both in Schengen and are both NOT in the Customs Union. Most people believe Schengen applies to people and goods, but in fact Schengen is only free movement of people (i.e. no passport control). The misconception my arise because most Schengen countries are also part of the Customs Union. Greece may be the only EU Schengen country that is in this situation.
are both in Schengen and are both NOT in the Customs Union.
I thought all EU countries are in the EU customs union.
Since Greece applies schengen only to people and not vehicles, and since all its land borders are with non-schengen countries, the only way I can see of making use of Greece’s schengen treaty signature is by swimming from Italy to Corfu, and that is a very long way to swim, especially without “something” to hold on to (e.g. a surfboard) and then a Greek policeman would say that is a “vehicle”
This would of course have been foreseen from Day 1, which shows the cynicism of this whole edifice (on the part of all parties). Like I said, the schengen signature was just a condition of some €€€€ / loan schedule / etc. Symbolism all the way…
chflyer wrote:
Although Greece is in the EU and Switzerland is not, Greece and Switzerland are both in Schengen and are both NOT in the Customs Union. […] The misconception my arise because most Schengen countries are also part of the Customs Union. Greece may be the only EU Schengen country that is in this situation.
All EU member states, including Greece, are in the Customs Union. Even the most cursory google search reveals that instantly.
Cobalt wrote:
All EU member states, including Greece, are in the Customs Union. Even the most cursory google search reveals that instantly.
Yes, false thought process. Italy allows flying to/from any airfield in Italy to/from Greece, so they clearly consider Greece to be both in Schengen and the Customs Union.
So Greece simply has passed a national law that overrides it, on the Greek side.
It’s a rather long haul, but has anyone tried flying from directly from a non-AoE airfield in Germany or Austria non-stop to/from Greece or otherwise have an opinion on how the German/Austrian authorities would look on it?
So Greece mandates (and massively inconveniences) people to fly only to certain airports to/from the country, so that customs can theoretically „check only the vehicle“, which in practice never happens.
Doesn’t sound very „customs union“ like to me.
It doesn’t and on top of that it is based on an out of date version of 2454 / 93 which out of oversight required the EU border be crossed at specific (customs) points for a temporary import / export declaration to be considered as validly made, resulting in ridiculous charges be levied against tourists (our famous Swiss pilot cause celebre in Germany) or Grenzgänger who crossed the “green” EU border and got done for import duties (mostly by Germany, France never really cared).
As far as intra-EU travel is allowed you can travel wherever and stick the middle finger up if they say “AoE” or “Customs”. As far as intra Schengen travel is concerned you can do the same. Extra-Schengen not so much.
Can you litigate and win – sure, but it needs time and money.
so they clearly consider Greece to be both in Schengen and the Customs Union.
Well, Greece is both Schengen and Customs.
So Greece simply has passed a national law that overrides it, on the Greek side.
That’s not how it works. EU law is supranational and overrides national law. Hence my question a few posts above if anyone knows if such national customs stuff is even legal.
chflyer wrote:
Anytime anyone raises the possibility in Switzerland of checking border traffic with the EU it generates a statement by local Swiss politicians that Schengen forbids it.
Have another look. Greece does not go that route, exactly that is why. They have a national law which keeps CUSTOMS going, so any airplane going in and out needs to do so via a customs airport.
Of course, Greece being a member of the EU, this is even more ridikulous than Schengen, which is suspended in many places anyway de facto due to Covid, but that is the big difference.
Snoopy wrote:
EU law is supranational and overrides national law.
Technically, yes. But there are a number of EU laws that are not followed by all member states. Legal or not, in those situations the member country just challenges the EU to do something about it, which for political reasons never happens often despite Brussels threats to the contrary…. there are other good (or better) examples with other countries besides this “small” Greek one.
