Silvaire wrote:
The reason for the treaty situation on the ground is that given the very small size of the adjacent countries, anything else with modern ground transportation would be ridiculous, and in fact was ridiculous when I first started traveling in Europe. Given the even higher speed of light aircraft, the current situation with presubmitted flight plans etc to cross borders is even more ridiculous, and archaic, today.
I sovereign country is still a sovereign country no matter how ridiculously small Mr Silvaire think it is travelling with his bike 
As others have said, flight plans may be an archaic nuisance, but it’s very low on the priority of things that would make flying better. Things like £100 for landing and parking fees for one night in Scotland is a typical high priority item with the potential to destroy GA as we know it, and even as we don’t yet know it.
Once in the air, the flight plan can be changed of course. Especially no issue, when you’re in contact with ATC or FIS.
The baseline for VFR flying is and should be the ability to fly in Class E or lower airspace without radio contact. Given that the same is the norm for ground transport within continental Europe, it is entirely reasonable and should be possible for air traffic to fly between countries or anywhere else in Class E or lower with no flight plan, no radio contact, and no need to advise anybody of any diversion. If the police need to chase people down to enforce their tax collection they can do it the same way they do it on the ground, with intelligence they generate themselves. This would be a huge enticement for normal people to fly, more so in my view than the scale of landing fees mentioned by @LeSving. Whether anybody wants to recognize or not, freedom and its removal motivates people and that is why UL flying has caught on, even with its own artificial limitations that are also debated and/or denied here. The best solution would be to remove ALL of the nonsense, including cleaning up the airspace to provide Class E or lower airspace to most places that people would like to go. A little Class D might be necessary in urban areas, at busy GA airports of which there are few in Europe.
Then when the volume goes up, the airport costs tend to go down.
[ text deleted – that was over the line ]
VicYou can go 1000 km from Munich to Baltic sea without contacting anybody on ground or having a flight plan. Nor do I need flight plans for Austria
Can the above be supported with actual information?
If so, please review this thread and contribute any updates.
Also avoid attacks on a particular country. Remember, if someone does that here, particularly with certain countries in Europe, we get a mass exodus, with people slagging off EuroGA on their domestic sites.
including cleaning up the airspace
That would be ideal but any sort of airspace unification been totally abandoned in Europe. I have this straight from a one time dir of EASA. Too much nationalist (“soveregnity” is the polite word) stuff in the way.
??? From Munich to Baltic sea is all G and E airspace , no need to cross any other airspace if I take care – easy in Germany. So obviously no need to have contact with anybody on ground when flying VFR. I can have contact with FIS if I see any advantage from this but not really very useful. Vic
That cannot possible be correct, as posted. Airspace class is only peripherally related to the right to cross borders non-radio – as detailed in the linked thread.
Peter wrote:
Also avoid attacks on a particular country. Remember, if someone does that here, particularly with certain countries in Europe, we get a mass exodus, with people slagging off EuroGA on their domestic sites.
Oddly enough it has zero effect on me as a recipient. When you know the facts from lots of personal experience and from ongoing close, personal, familial contact it’s enough to feel secure in your opinions.
Peter wrote:
That would be ideal but any sort of airspace unification been totally abandoned in Europe. I have this straight from a one time dir of EASA. Too much nationalist (“soveregnity” is the polite word) stuff in the way.
One can surely imagine that to be the case, and the restrictions and complexity do nothing for anybody except the tax collectors and bureaucrats. Europe in its entirety is large enough to have interests, but individual European countries playing inward looking games with private air traffic is just a bit silly in 2024. The solution would be to starve the government functionaries who benefit, and reduce their numbers by defunding them.
Peter wrote:
Can the above be supported with actual information?
You don’t need to cross any national borders to go from Munich to the Baltic coast…
Oh well that is a bit disingenuous then, isn’t it… I can fly from here to Wick, Scotland, non-radio, too. No FP too.
Also it is obvious when one looks on a map that this is nowhere near “You can go 1000 km from Munich to Baltic sea”.
What was the point of that post?
