RobertL18C wrote:
Vladimir the main hurdle is 500 hours multi crew, ATR 42/72 rated first officers transfer to jets and the airline will sometimes pay the TR. If you are looking for a flag carrier job better to arrive with command hours and fast track to command.As a turboprop TR is half the price of a 320/737 TR, going down the turboprop route is not a dead end and may save some money.
Not to my experience. All airlines flying A320 or B737 require 1000 hours jet experience. Also the ATR 42/72 TR costs only about 10% less than A320 and I have to pay it without any guarantee to get a job afterwards. Best option I got was pay for the ATR 72 TR myself, apply afterwards to the company which actually does the TR, if lucky to get in fly 400 hours without pay and then see again what my status is. That’s a one year no paid work after paying another 30-35k EUR if I am lucky.
I prefer very much easyjet where the A320 TR is 35-40k and you get a guaranteed paid contract if you are successful with the TR. Also easyjet seems to be a very innovative company in a lot of areas, even though this innovation is powered by the desire to save money, so it is a good starting point.
From what I’ve learned until now, it seems like easyjet is a better employer than Ryanair as well as their recruiting process is much better (I’ve been trying to get to talk to someone in Ryanair to see if they even got my documents through their system for more than a year now, unsuccessfully).
Raynair is more like a beta test of pilots, a passenger financed beta test
There is one thing to be said with Ryan Air and that is that their safety record is very good and they are very serious about it too. Even if the reason may be that they know darn well that they can not survive a major smash up, it is a fact that they have a very good record.
From that I would say that your allegation that they are beta testing pilots on the passengers account is a bit flippant. Ryan could not have held an ops like this without any pilot induced major incident for so long if they were negligent with their pilot selection.
I reckon a lot of the negative perception RYR have acquired come from their boss who seems never at a loss how to put off people.
Marchettiman wrote:
Although I am not fond of unions this is one business that seems to need a good strong one to negotiate on their pilots’ behalf.
Unions are still the best way to improve working conditions so your conclusion is on spot. In Germany the pilots union is called Cockpit and they’ve done a lot to improve pay and conditions for pilots, though Ryanair is a though nut to crack for them.
Here, the best unions tend to be those who represent a single profession, such as pilots, doctors or train drivers. And of course a union needs to cover as many employees of that profession as possible to be effective. I think that may be one problem with Ryanair because they, like many low-cost companies, actively discourage union membership.
If a company does that then it is a good indication that they are a bad employer.
RobertL18C wrote:
Many of the modular students I have trained are Ryanair flight deck crew, and very happy for it. Yes, it is a EUR 30,000 ticket for the type rating (and not everybody get through it), but the good ones get command in their twenties. Compensation is six figures at command
Sounds like a pretty good opportunity, even if you do have to join a union – I’d feel horrible if ever forced to do so. I’d pay to avoid anybody between me and my employer in negotiations, and no I don’t feel the need to ‘support’ anybody in dealing with their employer – if I knew what that meant.
Having some lean manufacturing / process optimization background, I can see Ryanair scoring better than most companies. As I understand, one of their main objectives is to keep the expensive part of the business making money: Planes shouldn’t be on the ground, they should be flying most of the time.
As such, they need to have a very good maintenance. I can’t imagine they skimp on that (and I’ve taken a lot of their flights, and I don’t recall ever having a tecnical delay, unlike other companies). Fleet standardization is obviously going to be a great help in that. Mechanics only know one type of plane so they probably know it very well too!
These days, ryanair is not that different from any other airline. Compare 2 short hauls with say, BA* and Ryanair.
Both you have to pay luggage
Both you have to pay for assigned seating (although BA might allow it shortly before departure?).
On track record will be similar (or possibly better) on Ryanair
Ryanair has bad public perception, so they have to be much more careful in anything they do safety-wise, as otherwise hell would rain on them at the slightest issue (while people will normally feel sympathy for their favourite flag carrier)
*Replace here with your favourite flag company.
Strangely, people love Ikea (also crowded / you have to do it all yourself), but hate ryanair. They also take the tube instead of taking a taxi/uber, and don’t complain about that.
Ryanair is not what they were a couple years ago (people rushing to the plane). They don’t have as low prices either (where the breakfast at the airport would cost more than the fare)
IMHO the great safety of these airlines is due to
I am sure Rynair sell most of their tickets at 3 figure prices; they have to. You cannot make money on a 737 with 150 seats at €20 a seat. It has to be somewhere in the region of €100-150 to generate enough gross profit to cover the fixed costs of the operation. Just throw some figures in the air for your favourite route and google the fuel burn of a 737… then add all the ground stuff like the line maintenance which is done all outdoors, at night, in all weather (the sh1ttiest job imaginable, like working outdoors on an oil rig except it is always at night, which knackers the health of the workers) and the pay is about €70-80k so it doesn’t come cheap.
I agree on most points but the CAT3. Low costs are usually the only companies going to small airfields (e.g. Dinard LFTD, Rodez LFCR). BA / AF / LH etc are the ones who generally will not see anything other than CAT3.
Often they are the only choice to go to one of these places.
Re the price of tickets: Yes, I’ve even paid ~400 euros for late booked tickets on a ryanair.
These days, given equivalent choice, I usually go for Ryanair, mostly because (after City), Stansted is the most convenient airport for me to get to. Maybe when the crossrail opens to heathrow things wilil change.
Following the discussion, the only problem I see is the treatment of the staff (be it pilots, cabin crew or maintenance). And as a matter of fact it seems to be not that far away from the flag carriers. I am following several youtube channels, one created by a captain in Ryanair and another by a first office in Airberlin. They are both very happy, talk only positive things about their companies (which they don’t publicly say the name of but with some google-ing you can find) and had no issues with the recent events in both companies. Shortly, if you stay longer and get seniority, you get good conditions and can enjoy your work. Seems to be the same in big companies.
Silvaire wrote:
even if you do have to join a union – I’d feel horrible if ever forced to do so.
I think I was told about exactly the opposite at Ryanair (though maybe I’m confusing them with another low-coster): you had a much greater chance of getting hired as an independent contractor (on a B2B basis) rather than an employee. Personally, I’d be totally happy to forgo the employee benefits and be responsible for my taxes and social security myself.
i think we should be very thankful for ryanair easyjet and etc for changing european airtravel in the last 25 or so years
