Did I understand correctly, that EUR30K is the actual cost of Type rating + MCC for 737?
What is the typical cost of a TR for a business aircraft?
KingAir?
Cessna Citations?
LearJet?
Gulfstream?
Would you mentor me?
Sure, if you have a manufacturing idea. Happy to talk on Zoom, etc. But marketing is not easy these days.
and an interest in getting ‘the best’ even if it doesn’t actually make that much difference for many people, just a fraction of them
Yes; higher education is wasted on many people (starting with my two sons who have done well without it). In many ways it is a great social p1ss-up for 3 years, while you are learning almost nothing of actual “job value”.
But then a CPL/IR at an FTO also teaches you almost nothing of “job value”; the only reason these “kids” don’t crash all over the place is because the hardware is excellent and because “somebody in the system” ensures there is a “real pilot” in the LHS (a simplification but you get my drift) 
What is the typical cost of a TR for a business aircraft?
I am told c. 10k. Years ago…
Bizjets are a more rewarding career from what I hear, but you do need to be a good pilot to get in there – other than a “RHS deadweight” in single pilot non-AOC bizjet ops where the client wants two pilots. You get a call that Mrs X wants to go shopping in Cannes 9am tomorrow morning, and you have to plan the whole thing, just like we do in GA. Well, they often buy routepacks from flight support companies, and higher up one can buy more support e.g. hotel bookings. But the people I know are doing almost everything alone.
@arj1 anecdotally TR for a KA €20k, Citation €25k and Gulfstream €100k. Now command on a Gulfstream is earning $3k a day.
The smart route to a FO 737 job used to be a modular ATP (€30k) an ATR TR (€15k) and paying your dues on a small regional or cargo op (€25k salary plus flight pay) until unfrozen. You then switched to lo cost FO on a two year bond.
Basically the pay to play TR is not a money maker for the airlines, a minority of candidates wash out at TR or line training and the airlines don’t want the expense of training pilots who are not going to make it. Someone coming from two years on an ATR is a reasonably reliable candidate and therefore the airline will invest in the TR.
Just asked somebody. Reply:
dublinpilot wrote:
But looking at it from the airline point of view, why would you pay for someone’s type rating course and give them a great starting salary, when you have a queue of other people shouting “I’ll pay for my own type rating and I’m happy to work for a small salary for the first few years!”If there was a shortage of able people things would be different, but it’s “dog eat dog” when it comes to looking for a starting position in the airlines. Way more people want the job than there are positions available.
Indeed, simple supply and demand. There is an enormous oversupply of people willing and able to do the job, and not only that but they really want to do the job. That will drive down the terms, and it was ever thus.
I would hypothesise that part of the reason for the enormous oversupply is the lack of an academic barrier to entry. When I interview young men and women for an entry-level position in our team at work I am operating at the other end of the scale. It is often hard to find interested candidates with the required bachelors degree in a science subject, despite offering them (looking at the first post) more than twice the pilot’s salary Ryanair are advertising. Now part of that is obviously the glamour differential between flying aeroplanes and pricing/strategising clinical trials, but part must also be the requirement for a rigorous academic degree in a ‘difficult’ subject. Requiring a science degree will always whittle down the numbers, and I believe some airlines achieve a similar effect by requiring 90%+ in some multiple choice tests.
@Peter they sound like SIC FAA TR not EASA
Peter wrote:
Just asked somebody. Reply:
Depends on availability of sims.FAA initial on a CJ is around $13k.
You can get a 737-400 type rating for around €6k (because there are loads of SIMS)
Gulfstream type can be $40k USD.
RobertL18C wrote:
@Peter they sound like SIC FAA TR not EASA
And do they include the 6 takeoffs and landings in the real a/c?
Hm. Gulfstream looks quite expensive!
Years ago (when there were a lot of pilots on the market) I’ve been told by a freshly minted 737 pilot that if you have a frozen ATPL + MCC + JOC, then getting TR + 500hrs on the type would cost around 50K – the route was to pay for your TR and then PAY for 500hrs, it was called “type experience” or something?
Judging by that, the market is still in the better place than it was a decade ago! :)
It is in the private flight non-AOC context, which is rarely EASA-reg.
getting TR + 500hrs on the type would cost around 50K
500hrs on any multi pilot plane would be more like 2M+, not 50k, unless you get a RHS job. Only the likes of John Travolta could fund their own 500hr “ATPL unfreezing” and that’s if you do it on a sim.
Graham wrote:
I would hypothesise that part of the reason for the enormous oversupply is the lack of an academic barrier to entry.
Absolutely. I’d argue it is almost the perfect storm of one of the most desirable jobs (at least by many that do not know it) combined with the lowest entry barriers. It might obviously be partly do to the social bubble I live in, but I haven’t heard of a single case yet where somebody who wanted to start ATPL training did not find a flight school to take his money due to lack of prior education …
The barrier to entry in the US is the 1500 hour requirement.
