Malibuflyer wrote:
Exchanging money is for free (also in Tanzania): You just have to meet that other person and hand him some bills. That easy. No computer needed at all, no electricity, etc.
When was the last time your salary was paid in cash? 
chflyer wrote:
When was the last time your salary was paid in cash?
More recent than in BTC ;-)
Dimme wrote:
Another hit on the credit card scene
Great example! Thank you Dimme!
Key words are “They then tried to spend thousands of pounds at the catalogue retailer Argos.”
In this case, no damage has actually been done because the security mechanisms built into credit card payments actually worked and protected the customer from harm.
What would have happened with bitcoin? If a scammer managed to make the target believe they are from the Ritz and need to get the targets btc passphrase, there is no way at all to protect the target against all money from this wallet been taken away.
With btc there is exactly one line of defense: Never give your wallet passphrase to anybody else. If this line of defense is broken by a scammer, for now and the future there is no way at all to get back control of your wallet – the only thing you can do is to try to move the funds to a non compromised wallet faster than the scam (which is an extremely interesting game theoretic problem as you need to decide how much trx fees you want to offer for your trx being processed faster than the trx of the scammer).
If your credit card credentials are acquired by a scammer, there is still a second line of defense (that in the case Dimme quoted held strong) and that is that the credit card company monitors for suspicious transactions and might ask for additional authorization. If this line of defense gets broken as well (in Dimmes case the scammer tried unsuccessfully), with credit cards there is still a third line: You can always block your card. This obviously only protects against future abuse, but at least it does.
Malibuflyer wrote:
If your credit card credentials are acquired by a scammer, there is still a second line of defense (that in the case Dimme quoted held strong) and that is that the credit card company monitors for suspicious transactions and might ask for additional authorization.
Swedish banks have a common electronic identification system which is widely used. My experience is that with very few exceptions, every online card transaction, requires the buyer to authorize the transaction using that system, even for quite small (≈€10) amounts.
Will this be a challenge to bitcoin?
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0714/1234978-digital-euro/
@Malibuflyer that was the first random article I found on BBC’s website.
If you want to nitpick, I can find another one where they succeeded.
Or not, I bet you will have a perfect argument for that too.
Dimme wrote:
If you want to nitpick, I can find another one where they succeeded.
It is not about nitpicking and not about the individual case (although the individual case you quoted was a perfect example).
It is about the very fundamental difference in principle.
In payment methods based on money, almost all countries have the fundamental principle of checks and balances: Credit card companies check transactions against suspicious behavior and in doubt ask back (as in the case you quoted). You typically have a limit on how much you can spend in one transaction, how much cash you get from an ATM in a certain period of time and in many countries even put to which amount you are allowed to pay cash. There are ways to override all of these limits, but then more people are involved that check the legitimation, etc.
All these actions have the purpose to establish multiple lines of defense against fraudsters, scammers, etc. so that at least the damage done by an individual case is somehow limited.
Bitcoin has a completely different philosophy: Whoever has the credentials has full control of the tokens. No questions asked. As soon as a fraudster somehow got hold of your passphrase, he can do with the the tokens whatever he wants to do – there is no limit and no question asked.
Btw.: Same difference in philosophy when it comes to lost credentials. When you loose your credit card, forget the password for your online banking or ATM PIN there is always a way to get it back and regain control of the money. Even if you physically lost your wallet, there is at least still a chance that you get it back in lost & found.
If you loose you BTC credentials, the tokens are gone – forever. No way at all to get back control.
Maoraigh wrote:
Will this be a challenge to bitcoin?
I doubt it. A digital Euro (just like the proposed Swedish e-Crown) is the same currency as the regular Euro (or Swedish Crown) – just a particular technical solution.
Right now Swedish Facebook users are flooded with scam advertisements about “investing in the e-Crown”. For one thing, no decision has been made to implement an e-Crown, and even if it gets implemented it is still the same currency as the regular Swedish Crown so you could just as well open a regular SEK account right now.
This is hilarious, but completely expected 
