claim that their personal (or other individual) situation should be taken as the norm and therefore EV’s are not usable for anyone.
Nobody has said that.
Airborne_Again wrote:
This discussion is going nowhere. What I and other EV-positive people have stated over and over again is that EV’s are not for all, at least not at this point in time.
But the current political view in quite a few European countries is that they will ban sell of new cars that are not Electrical in the next few years. That means that they see a significant majority of car being EV in the the near future.
Now if you look at the number of cars on the Autoroute A6 in summer in France (you know, the one between Paris and Marseilles) and switch a majority of them to EV, you have massive problem: Currently if you stop at any gas station on this autoroute in peak period, you’ll most likely have to wait for one or two cars to fill up before you. They use about 2 minutes each, that’s fine. Let’s be optimistic with EV charging and say that with EV, they take 10 minutes each instead. Well by the time the first car has finished charging, you now have 5 cars waiting (10 minutes instead of 2) so in average, if your have as many very fast charging station as fuel pumps you can expect to wait 50 minutes before you event start charging.
Exactly, so we know that that they will ban sell of new cars that are not Electrical in the next few years is not going to be politically possible. There would be absolute mayhem on the roads and in the service stations.
The most likely “solutions” will be
)There is no solution for trucks, and they burn a whole load of diesel.
Peter wrote:
The most likely “solutions” will be …
You forgot one – diesel engine generator trailers will become very popular (until they are banned). 
Peter wrote:
Exactly, so we know that that they will ban sell of new cars that are not Electrical in the next few years is not going to be politically possible.
Not everywhere but it will go through. Governments have long burnt the bridges on that issue and car makers in Europe in particular have comitted themseleves.
Possibly that in the UK it won’t go through, but it will in the EU, particularly in countries like Germany, which goes as far as pulling the plug on their last NPP’s while in an energy crisis. These people will pull it through unless they are deplaced by a revolution, which imho won’t come.
The next thing will be to tax petrol into being unaffordable.
As for the story about ruined family holidays…. that guy should stay away from GA as far as he can. As GA short of a King Air can do the very same and will most of the time you are tryingto go someplace.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
and car makers in Europe in particular have comitted themseleves.
That ‘commitment’ is nothing more than making statements along those lines. As Peter said earlier, it’s nothing but fantastic PR and a business is perfectly entitled to change its mind. There’s no downside.
Have they actually ripped up everything that underpins their ICE car business? Have they stopped developing their designs, closed the factories, fired the engineers, etc? Of course not. Hedging.
Any date you hear about for banning new ICE designs or stopping production is 100% certain to get kicked out indefinitely.
WingsWaterAndWheels wrote:
Let’s be optimistic with EV charging and say that with EV, they take 10 minutes each instead.
Optimistic, or some kind of imaginary dream world?
It’s a rather unfortunate paradox. The imaginary 250-space charging facility at a motorway service station is the place where you want really fast charging. But both the number of spaces and the requirement for fast charging quickly drive the overall power requirement to silly levels.
Conversely at home you only want the ability to charge one or two vehicles at once, so the supply can support fast charging. But apart from some relatively rare edge cases, you don’t need fast charging at home.
Let’s be optimistic with EV charging and say that with EV, they take 10 minutes each instead.
Also, that’s not quite how queueing theory works. The only thing anyone needs to know about it is the formula for average queue length. If it takes 10 minutes to charge, and 1 car arrives every 11 minutes, the queue length will be 10, meaning the average wait will be 100 minutes. Of course as soon as the average arrival rate exceeds the average service rate, the queue becomes infinite.
The whole thing is pure PR and greenwashing – “gesticulation mediatique” as they say in French. OF COURSE the “deadline” will be pushed out, 3 years at a time, until at least 2040 if not 2050, by which time maybe there will be enough infrastructure in place and enough improvements in battery (or hydrogen) technology that it all becomes feasible.
Meanwhile I’m hanging on to my diesel Dacia Duster.
Graham wrote:
Optimistic, or some kind of imaginary dream world?
Well that was just to avoid being criticized for not taking into account further development in charging of EV, but I agree that it’s beyond optimist but still makes the point…
johnh wrote:
Also, that’s not quite how queueing theory works.
Agreed, I was over simplifying and if you were matching the current at petrol station on the A6 in peak period, I think you would be closer to one car every 2 or 3 minutes, which makes things even worse…
To be fair, it is necessary to come up with some factor which you put into the calculations to account for the fact that a significant proportion of all charge will go into EVs at home.
Every ICE car visits petrol stations and it’s the only place they get petrol.
Not every EV will visit charging stations. Some will do so frequently, some rarely. A relatively small proportion may never do so, particularly while that household also runs an ICE car – i.e. they simply don’t use the EV for anything more than short trips.
